Who was to blame for the last F1 race?

[rage2]

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SC are inherently random events. Over a session they even out.

I’m not debating that. Strategists makes calculations based on how it plays out with the timing, and what expected results are based on all possible scenarios to figure out the best chance at winning. Even Dr Strange wouldn’t foresee what happened as a potential outcome.

[Buster]

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I’m not debating that. Strategists makes calculations based on how it plays out with the timing, and what expected results are based on all possible scenarios to figure out the best chance at winning. Even Dr Strange wouldn’t foresee what happened as a potential outcome.

As @A2VR6 pointed out, the moment the safety car came out Lewis was screwed. Mercedes made a bet and lost.

[A2VR6]

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As @A2VR6 pointed out, the moment the safety car came out Lewis was screwed. Mercedes made a bet and lost.

Yep. However the bet Mercedes made was more than justifiable. Nobody knew if they could get the crash cleaned up fast enough to restart. Hell if there was substantial damage to the barrier there would be no way they could restart the race unless they threw a red flag or something (which probably would have happened under those circumstances)

[Team_Mclaren]

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As @A2VR6 pointed out, the moment the safety car came out Lewis was screwed. Mercedes made a bet and lost.

I have agreed with everything you've said. But I dont think Mercedes can make any other decision BUT to let him stay on.

[Buster]

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I have agreed with everything you've said. But I dont think Mercedes can make any other decision BUT to let him stay on.

I agree. Sometimes when you have nothing to lose you get an advantage.

[ThePenIsMightier]

Can you more learned fans explain this better to me?
I don't understand why Hamilton would not have pitted had they been given a proper notification of what was going to happen. If you pit under caution, you maintain your position, do you not? (Unless your pit crew completely butchers it).

[Buster]

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Can you more learned fans explain this better to me?
I don't understand why Hamilton would not have pitted had they been given a proper notification of what was going to happen. If you pit under caution, you maintain your position, do you not? (Unless your pit crew completely butchers it).

No you do not. I believe the consensus is that Lewis would have lost track position. I might be wrong on that - but that's what his team said anyway.

[A2VR6]

A pit stop under safety car conditions is typically a 14 second ordeal (assuming the stop is 2-3 seconds). Max was 11 seconds behind Lewis. If Lewis pitted and Max stayed out he’d be 3 seconds behind him.

[Buster]

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A pit stop under safety car conditions is typically a 14 second ordeal (assuming the stop is 2-3 seconds). Max was 11 seconds behind Lewis. If Lewis pitted and Max stayed out he’d be 3 seconds behind him.

Can you post pics of your cars in the everyday thread? You got some interesting ones there.

[ThePenIsMightier]

Thanks a2vr6

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No you do not. I believe the consensus is that Lewis would have lost track position. I might be wrong on that - but that's what his team said anyway.

I heard them say that, too.
So when Verstappen pitted, I assume Hamilton was already passed the pit lane and couldn't choose to pit on the next lap... For some reason?
Or, were they out of laps by that point?

What I felt (as a casual observer) was that the Masi should've had a clear and concise plan communicated to everyone within seconds of the crash. That would have allowed both leaders to pit, and allowed the whole field to re-grid, giving each leader a fair shake to battle it out over the final 2~ish laps.

[Buster]

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Thanks a2vr6


I heard them say that, too.
So when Verstappen pitted, I assume Hamilton was already passed the pit lane and couldn't choose to pit on the next lap... For some reason?
Or, were they out of laps by that point?

What I felt (as a casual observer) was that the Masi should've had a clear and concise plan communicated to everyone within seconds of the crash. That would have allowed both leaders to pit, and allowed the whole field to re-grid, giving each leader a fair shake to battle it out over the final 2~ish laps.

Yes, taht would have been ideal. I think (not sure) that they need the cars to all stack up behind the safety car before they can let them all through. Even so, the best possible solution would have been to instantly let all of the back markers through. But that would have meant Max starting a final lap or two on soft tires right behind Lewis. Which is exactly what Masi ended up arranging anyway. So I don't understand all of the fuss.

Or Lewis pits, ends up behind Max, both with fresh softs, and Lewis needing to pass Max in a lap or two with no DRS available.

Yet people here think I'm a lunatic for not wanting the race to finish under a SC or for not wanting to red flag a track that was clear just so Lewis can change tires in the lead. And then I'm called the biased one...lol

[rage2]

Another dimension on all this, Bottas was nowhere. If he was able to have some pace, could’ve been a better #2 and Max wouldn’t have been able to pit. All he had to do was be 14s behind Max (don’t expect him to be ahead of him). That would’ve protected Hamilton from every SC outcome, including the unexpected non standard scenario.

[ThePenIsMightier]

Sorry, I just don't see why they couldn't both pit and maintain their positions.
But I think I know why. One of the only advantages on earth of not leading is that you can choose to pit after the leader and the leader has to be reactive instead of proactive. Because racing.
But still... You wanna tell me Hamilton's team didn't know Verstappen was going to pit to put some chewing gum tires on for <4 laps when they know Hamilton is on tires with >40 laps on them?? Bullshit.

I don't know why they didn't put. How much was bad gamble and how much was Masi?

[Buster]

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Sorry, I just don't see why they couldn't both pit and maintain their positions.
But I think I know why. One of the only advantages on earth of not leading is that you can choose to pit after the leader and the leader has to be reactive instead of proactive. Because racing.
But still... You wanna tell me Hamilton's team didn't know Verstappen was going to pit to put some chewing gum tires on for <4 laps when they know Hamilton is on tires with >40 laps on them?? Bullshit.

I don't know why they didn't put. How much was bad gamble and how much was Masi?

Lewis wanted to pit.

[Cagare]

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Sorry, I just don't see why they couldn't both pit and maintain their positions.
But I think I know why. One of the only advantages on earth of not leading is that you can choose to pit after the leader and the leader has to be reactive instead of proactive. Because racing.
But still... You wanna tell me Hamilton's team didn't know Verstappen was going to pit to put some chewing gum tires on for <4 laps when they know Hamilton is on tires with >40 laps on them?? Bullshit.

I don't know why they didn't put. How much was bad gamble and how much was Masi?

Lewis was in front, if he dove into the puts then Max may have just stayed out to gain track position. Basically it was a scenario for Max to do what Lewis didn't. At that point they had very little to lose to do that.

Also was said earlier if someone like Bottas was closer to Max then he couldn't put without losing position.

So, as soon as Hamilton saw Max pit, then the safety car he knew he was in trouble.

[killramos]

Vote for a thread lock?

This thread is terrible

[ThePenIsMightier]

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Vote for a thread lock?

This thread is terrible

But it's Post Count+1 for talking about a TV show!

[shakalaka]

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Yes, taht would have been ideal. I think (not sure) that they need the cars to all stack up behind the safety car before they can let them all through. Even so, the best possible solution would have been to instantly let all of the back markers through. But that would have meant Max starting a final lap or two on soft tires right behind Lewis. Which is exactly what Masi ended up arranging anyway. So I don't understand all of the fuss.

Or Lewis pits, ends up behind Max, both with fresh softs, and Lewis needing to pass Max in a lap or two with no DRS available.

Yet people here think I'm a lunatic for not wanting the race to finish under a SC or for not wanting to red flag a track that was clear just so Lewis can change tires in the lead. And then I'm called the biased one...lol

Had Lewis pitted, Max being behind him likely would not have pitted to get track position, then Lewis would be on brand new tires and Max on slightly used on the final two laps. By the time Max pitted Lewis had already missed his pit window by not deciding to take the risk, so him pitting on the next lap was not an option. There was no scenario under which Lewis would be behind Max and both have a back to back race with both having brand new tires on the last lap.

Had Lewis pitted and Max also pitted, as soon as the SC was deployed, Lewis would have still been ahead in track position - problem solved for Lewis.

And I think it's been said a million times - the whole 'fuss' is about the fact that Masi made the call that cars between Max and Lewis will not be allowed to unlap themselves then suddenly changed his fucking mind when Horner whined the following lap. And if that was the case, he should have allowed ALL lapped cars to unlap themselves, not JUST the 4 between Max and Lewis. Because in that scenario race would have been over by the time the cars had unlapped themselves. He has the discretion to do what he thinks is best, but he doesn't have the discretion to apply the rules unevenly. Either allow unlapping of all cars, or none and the fact that some people can't comprehend that clearly shows they love Max more (or hate Lewis more) than the sport itself.

And agreed with @rage2 , had Bottas been anywhere where he was supposed to be, he could have helped but of course he's never around when you need him, at least not for Lewis. Wish he could have been what Perez has been to Max time and time again.

[Darkane]

Impossible!! A knight of the round wouldn’t act without honour and Tegrity.

https://www.autoblog.com/2021/12/15/...knighthood-f1/

[shakalaka]

^ I thought he was already knighted. Is it something that needs to be renewed every year?

I don't know, say what you want about him but I was surprised by how classy he was after the last race losing it in the manner he did. Shows maturity and class that obviously Max will need to grow up a lot to get (contrast with him leaving the podium a race before when he thought he was wronged). I thought Lewis would be absolutely livid in the end but he behaved like a true gentleman. He walks the talk he does.