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    Quote Originally Posted by rage2 View Post
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    Kinda funny after all the rbr team orders shit talk over the years, even with Perez having no pace, they still felt the need to issue a no fighting radio order, and hold him up for 3 sec for no reason other to ensure he doesn’t get an undercut haha.
    They learnt that from Baku 2018

    Also, Max was way way faster during that stint and the rest of the race. Checo was something like 3 seconds slower at that time as he had likely damaged his tires going too hard on lap 1 to make a gap.

    Made sense from team and pace perspective. Checo ended up with fastest lap too so they really maximized it. The 'no fighting' was just a precaution to the eventual finish

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    Quote Originally Posted by rage2 View Post
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    Both drivers were given laptimes to adhere to. Perez followed them. Max did not. Later on in the race, Max’s engineer told him to slow down as he was exceeding target. He said slowing down would cool the tires too much. At this point max was given a faster target. Perez was not. The gap was purely because of team orders, and one guy not respecting them.

    Who knows what the real pace between the 2 would’ve be. Team didn’t let it happen. Only comparison points were Max trying to go for fastest lap on lap 50. Team was not happy and reminded him to just bring it home. He didn’t have traffic and still failed to beat Perez’s fastest lap. The other comparison was Perez’s fastest lap which was set on lap 36. Both him and Max pitted together and came out with fresh tires under VSC. Max set his fastest lap on 36, Perez then beat him right after, and that time stood.
    Where did you see Perez being given slower lap times to adhere to? The only thing I saw was him complaining about lack of grip and his post-race comments said the same.


    Perez is hoping to understand why he appeared to be struggling with tyre degradation more than Verstappen during the race."At the restart [after the VSC] I just had too much deg[radation] on the Medium tyre," he explained.
    "That was extremely high for me, and it's something that we have to understand what happened there, because certainly Max was a lot stronger today on that Medium stint.
    "[There are] a lot of things that we have to review from today, but it's a very good team result."
    When Verstappen overtook Perez for the lead, the driver from Mexico was told "no fighting". When quizzed about this afterwards, Perez said that he could understand the call.
    "I think it was the right call made by the team because, at that time, Max was further ahead," Perez added.
    "It was just a good team result. In this place, anything can happen, so at the end of the day, we managed to do a 1-2 so that's a great team result."
    Perez revealed that his race became undone through a “miscommunication” when the Virtual Safety Car was triggered, Red Bull missing that prime opportunity to pit Perez.“Unfortunately we missed the Virtual Safety Car stop,” said Perez. “There was some miscommunication and once we wanted that [stop] it was a bit too late. We were a bit unlucky there because that would have made up our race when we were leading.
    “And then at the restart I just keep to myself, I think on that medium tyre there what the deg that was extremely high for me, something that we have to understand what happened there because certainly Max was a lot stronger today I’ve seen.
    “So yeah, a lot of things that we have to review for today, but it’s still a very good team result.”
    Edit: Then there's this read as well which delves a little deeper into the details: https://the-race.com/formula-1/mark-...n-ferrari-woe/

    I do appreciate Merc fans trying to create a "Checogate" out of RBR working as a team though.
    Last edited by davidI; 06-13-2022 at 03:06 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidI View Post
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    Where did you see Perez being given slower lap times to adhere to? The only thing I saw was him complaining about lack of grip and his post-race comments said the same.

    Edit: Then there's this read as well which delves a little deeper into the details: https://the-race.com/formula-1/mark-...n-ferrari-woe/

    I do appreciate Merc fans trying to create a "Checogate" out of RBR working as a team though.
    Watch the race with uncensored team radio. It’s all there. If you don’t have F1TV, you might have to wait a week before someone posts it. Perez wasn’t given slower laptimes to adhere to. They were both given the same and stressed that the other driver had the same target. Max just broke the target consistently while Perez didn’t. This doesn’t explain the strategy calls that led to the swapped places, just why there was a huge gap between the 2 at the end of the race.

    You are correct that Perez had high deg on mediums. The no fighting call prevented any sort of defense. After max passed, Perez kept within 3 seconds behind max. Then came lap 17 when Perez had the undercut pit strategy, in which he was inexplicably held for 3.5 seconds in the pit, undermining the undercut. Max pit 2 laps later and came out 3.5s ahead of Perez. Race over for Perez at that point, and the target deltas from pit wall came in after Leclerc retirement.

    Everything is all there on F1TV. The radio messages, the “botched” pitstop, which iirc was even questioned in the replay on the live feed. A couple of us watch the race live and we collectively analyze in race strategy which is where this came about. Didn’t read about it anywhere.

    Also I’m not a Merc fan, I just don’t like RBR haha. I clearly explained it’s shit like this is why I’ve always hated them.

    edit - just did some quick homework for you, 39min 40sec on F1TV is where commentators on both feeds scratch their heads on the Perez pitstop replay as nothing was being worked on and just sat there for an extra 3-4 seconds.
    Originally posted by SEANBANERJEE
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    all the pit stops sucked at Baku for some reason. The fastest for any teams stop was only a 2.7 compared to a 2.2 at Monaco.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
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    4am smoked meat on poutine.

    Drinks

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    Sunday afternoon: "I feel like there was some place I'm supposed to be..."

    Quote Originally Posted by rage2 View Post
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    edit - just did some quick homework for you, 39min 40sec on F1TV is where commentators on both feeds scratch their heads on the Perez pitstop replay as nothing was being worked on and just sat there for an extra 3-4 seconds.
    Was that the one where they thinking the jackman was waiting for a green light I think? Maybe a technical glitch?

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    Quote Originally Posted by rage2 View Post
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    Watch the race with uncensored team radio. It’s all there. If you don’t have F1TV, you might have to wait a week before someone posts it. Perez wasn’t given slower laptimes to adhere to. They were both given the same and stressed that the other driver had the same target. Max just broke the target consistently while Perez didn’t. This doesn’t explain the strategy calls that led to the swapped places, just why there was a huge gap between the 2 at the end of the race.

    You are correct that Perez had high deg on mediums. The no fighting call prevented any sort of defense. After max passed, Perez kept within 3 seconds behind max. Then came lap 17 when Perez had the undercut pit strategy, in which he was inexplicably held for 3.5 seconds in the pit, undermining the undercut. Max pit 2 laps later and came out 3.5s ahead of Perez. Race over for Perez at that point, and the target deltas from pit wall came in after Leclerc retirement.

    Everything is all there on F1TV. The radio messages, the “botched” pitstop, which iirc was even questioned in the replay on the live feed. A couple of us watch the race live and we collectively analyze in race strategy which is where this came about. Didn’t read about it anywhere.

    Also I’m not a Merc fan, I just don’t like RBR haha. I clearly explained it’s shit like this is why I’ve always hated them.

    edit - just did some quick homework for you, 39min 40sec on F1TV is where commentators on both feeds scratch their heads on the Perez pitstop replay as nothing was being worked on and just sat there for an extra 3-4 seconds.
    Yea, I have F1TV and saw it all while watching the race but your homework could have been reviewing the article I posted with comments from Checo and the team rather than re-listening to live commentators guessing at what was happening on the track.

    To make it easy for you, here are some pertinent bits:

    Although the degradation rate was low enough for a one-stop (medium/hard) to be optimum, those cars running the skinniest wings would still need some tyre management. This was perhaps particularly pertinent to Perez, out front and setting a hot enough pace to have pulled out 1.3s over Leclerc on the opening lap, the dust rising from the Red Bull’s diffuser and tyres as he blasted down the straight.

    Eating Perez’s dust maybe wasn’t what Leclerc had imagined he’d be doing, but driving to his tyre temperatures while holding Verstappen at bay, he couldn’t initially keep Checo from pulling away, the gap out to 1.8s and 2.2s on subsequent laps.

    What it also perhaps meant was that the rears on the Red Bull needed a bit more looking after than those on the Ferrari. Verstappen, following Leclerc, was being held to an initial pace between 0.4-0.6s slower than leader Perez.
    It wasn’t too long before Perez was talking of his traction worsening. His race engineer Hugh Bird was telling him to ‘use his tools’, advising on diff settings etc.
    But Checo’s communication with him seemed less than clear: frequent hesitations, occasional clarifying questions. The radio reception around this place isn’t great and probably didn’t help. But at one point when Bird advised ‘tyres 6’, Checo replied that he just didn’t know what that meant.

    “We hit a lot of deg on that medium tyre after the virtual safety car,” Perez said. “So a few things to understand from that today.”

    “I didn’t feel like I was hitting the tyre too hard,” Perez said, a little mystified. But he had, clearly.
    “It was certainly right at the restart after the VSC that we lost the pace. We really dropped the pace massively.”
    That communication problem may also have played a part in his staying out at the VSC. Had he come in, his over-worked mediums would have been ditched before any harm was done.
    “I’m not the one deciding when to pit,” he said.
    “Unfortunately we have certain communications in place that we know when to pit and when the window’s open – but a few things went wrong today.”
    The other things that went wrong – but which made no difference – were a stuck front jack at his first stop, costing around 2s, and a broken wheel gun at a later stop taken when there was another VSC (for Kevin Magnussen’s broken-down Haas).
    in the moment of the VSC being called, Red Bull in theory was perfectly placed – with Perez leading the race and Verstappen in third being able to react to whatever Leclerc did – to have a foot in each strategic camp. As recalled, the call came maybe 1s too late for Perez to respond. He was already past the white lines denoting the opening of the pit entry road.

    Verstappen, 3s back, was instructed to do the opposite of Leclerc. So as the Ferrari peeled in, he – like Perez but for a different reason – stayed out.

    Perez’s poor pace after apparently frying the tyres meant he could offer no resistance at all when Verstappen on much healthier rubber came charging through even before the VSC. Although Perez was told ‘no fighting’ he wasn’t about to. He was in no position to.

    So because you dislike RBR you honestly think that they must have sabotaged the front jack and a wheel gun (or conspired with multiple mechanics to cause pit stop delays) and give Perez bad deltas to fuck his tires to somehow get Max into first and put him into second? Were they actually trying to fuck Perez by encouraging him to lap fast enough to build a gap to Leclerc before DRS was enabled?

    Did they sabotage the Ferraris as well to make sure their master plan would come to fruition and they could get maximum points with a 1-2 finish whilst still ensuring Max was on the top step?

    I'm fairly certain that at some point later this season a RBR driver is going to get team orders to ensure WDC points but you'd need a tin foil hat bigger the George Russel's head to think that's what happened in Baku.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidI View Post
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    Yea, I have F1TV and saw it all while watching the race but your homework could have been reviewing the article I posted with comments from Checo and the team rather than re-listening to live commentators guessing at what was happening on the track.

    To make it easy for you, here are some pertinent bits:



    So because you dislike RBR you honestly think that they must have sabotaged the front jack and a wheel gun (or conspired with multiple mechanics to cause pit stop delays) and give Perez bad deltas to fuck his tires to somehow get Max into first and put him into second? Were they actually trying to fuck Perez by encouraging him to lap fast enough to build a gap to Leclerc before DRS was enabled?

    Did they sabotage the Ferraris as well to make sure their master plan would come to fruition and they could get maximum points with a 1-2 finish whilst still ensuring Max was on the top step?

    I'm fairly certain that at some point later this season a RBR driver is going to get team orders to ensure WDC points but you'd need a tin foil hat bigger the George Russel's head to think that's what happened in Baku.
    I saw what I saw and interpreting based on that. None of the commentators really talking about it aside from no work being done then moved on, so it’s my conspiracy theory haha. Definitely a convenient excuse tho. If you watch the replay, the front jack goes down before the rear, so maybe rear jack stuck too? Realistically, both mechanics on jacks were simply waiting for the signal to drop. Lots of ways to orchestrate that. There’s literally a guy that controls when lights change based on pit traffic to avoid dangerous release. It was a very convenient error, that ensured undercut was eliminated. That’s it.

    Again, the deltas were something completely different. All that happened after the pit stops. I was merely answering why the race finished with Max 20s ahead. It was because max wasn’t respecting the targets, and eventually was given a quicker target near the end of the race (about 7 or so laps to go iirc). It wasn’t because Perez was slower on the hards. My fastest lap observation hints to that.
    Originally posted by SEANBANERJEE
    I have gone above and beyond what I should rightfully have to do to protect my good name

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    Seb rocked a sweet shirt today

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    Engine #3 for Leclerc and Turbo #4. The turbo means a 10 place grid penalty this weekend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rage2 View Post
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    If you watch the replay, the front jack goes down before the rear, so maybe rear jack stuck too? Realistically, both mechanics on jacks were simply waiting for the signal to drop. Lots of ways to orchestrate that. There’s literally a guy that controls when lights change based on pit traffic to avoid dangerous release. It was a very convenient error, that ensured undercut was eliminated. That’s it.
    Yea, I agree it was a convenient error but I really doubt it was intentional. A lot of teams had jack issues in Baku and one theory is that the heat was fucking with the hydraulics (though you'd think they'd be designed to tolerate it).

    The other theory is...

    Name:  WhatsApp Image 2022-06-14 at 4.43.02 PM.jpg
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    Either way, hope we see some good clean racing in Montreal.

    Edit: Another good point in this video is it seems Checo had the better qualifying set-up which meant more tire deg during the race. That, I could potentially see as a move to favour Max in the sense that they'd avoid Ferrari getting a front-row lockout, but I also suspect Checo was all for having higher downforce for qualifying pace given he's usually so good with tire management.

    https://youtu.be/2Wtv7LwgZ-k
    Last edited by davidI; 06-17-2022 at 02:35 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2Legit2Quit View Post
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    Seb rocked a sweet shirt today

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    Seb always been a preachy little bitch.

    For a guy with a carbon footprint bigger than any single person who works in the oil sands.
    Last edited by killramos; 06-17-2022 at 07:20 AM.
    Originally posted by Thales of Miletus

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    guessing who I might be, psychologizing me with your non existent degree.

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    "Broomstick handlebars is the coolest thing I've ever seen!!"

    /No one ever

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    Did Ferrari take any penalties?

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    Fuck Vettel.

    His main sponsor is literally Aramco.

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    Quote Originally Posted by flipstah View Post
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    Did Ferrari take any penalties?
    Leclerc is taking 30 grid penalties for Sunday now. He used a new engine (freebie) with an old turbo for today. And for Sunday he’ll take another new engine, new turbo, and new control electronics. Putting him at the back but giving them a spare engine / controllers (though short a turbo).

    Makes sense since subsequent penalties for another turbo another race is just 5 place penalty. P6 is still winnable

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    "This car is so bad" LewLew hates this years merc so much

    https://streamja.com/n305p

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    I had a laugh at the FIA ruling on Mercs concerns about the bouncing cars and driver safety. Instead of regulation changes to the cars to help Mercedes, they're putting limits on the amount of bounce you can have. Sorry Toto, build a better car, or raise it up and lose performance. But at least old man Lewis won't be bitching about compressed spine discs now. Hope this doesn't affect Russel who has been having a good run with the W13 so far. And the big question now, is will Ferrari get penalized for this? Even with the porpoising, they've been very competitive. It would be a shame for them to have to change the car now and make it a runaway season for RBR.

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    Cool to see Alonso up there on the front row and Vettel in the back

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    Wow that was an awesome quali! Big mistake from Russell going onto the slicks, that 1st sector was wayyyy too wet.

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