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Thread: Pheoxs' Garage/Workshop Build thread

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by pheoxs View Post
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    Any reason to run that over regular cat 6 if its in a conduit? Or just one of those it's only a couple bucks more so why not situations?
    For the same reason you can't (by code) run NMD90 in buried conduit - even cemented PVC conduit isn't considered watertight. For the minor cost increase it's worth using the right stuff - I think my pair of 100ft cables were a total of $80.

    I put my ethernet conduit in the same trench as the gas line.

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    The power and communication can go in the same trench. Just not the same conduit. If the duct has 4 inches of separation, between power/comm, that's better than 99% of residential installs out there. Guaranteed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BerserkerCatSplat View Post
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    For the same reason you can't (by code) run NMD90 in buried conduit - even cemented PVC conduit isn't considered watertight. For the minor cost increase it's worth using the right stuff - I think my pair of 100ft cables were a total of $80.

    I put my ethernet conduit in the same trench as the gas line.
    Good to know, thanks!
    Nolan

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    So a few updates:

    - Star building quoted me 13.5k for the building package which is high but seems reasonable for the current supply chain issues. I called a few places pricing out stuff like the garage door, man door, windows, etc and all the pricing seems consistent unfortunately.
    - Impact Concrete got back to me and quoted 24k (!) for the garage pad, which isn't happening. Rolling mix took my info, called me to ask a few questions then hasn't got back to me yet.

    I did have a question about insulation, for the scissor trusses it seems the easiest way is to pay someone to spray foam the ceiling but from what I've read if I go that route I -don't- want any ventilation in that portion of the roof correct? If that's the case then would it just be spray foam the inside of the sheathing, then throw up drywall on the bottom of the trusses. Do I need some kind of attic hatch on that side still incase of leaks or what not?

    Adding to that I guess, if there is no roof vents that means I use non-vented soffit as well correct?

    Edit: Or I think I'm misunderstanding and should use vented soffit, some vent baffles along the length of the roof to the top and then still have vents at the top? I keep finding different info but not all of it applies to our cold climate
    Last edited by pheoxs; 01-28-2022 at 03:07 PM.
    Nolan

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    Just here to plug Infinite Cables for your bulk ethernet needs. +1 for direct burial inside conduit, threw mine in the gas trench as well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pheoxs View Post
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    So a few updates:

    - Star building quoted me 13.5k for the building package which is high but seems reasonable for the current supply chain issues. I called a few places pricing out stuff like the garage door, man door, windows, etc and all the pricing seems consistent unfortunately.
    - Impact Concrete got back to me and quoted 24k (!) for the garage pad, which isn't happening. Rolling mix took my info, called me to ask a few questions then hasn't got back to me yet.

    I did have a question about insulation, for the scissor trusses it seems the easiest way is to pay someone to spray foam the ceiling but from what I've read if I go that route I -don't- want any ventilation in that portion of the roof correct? If that's the case then would it just be spray foam the inside of the sheathing, then throw up drywall on the bottom of the trusses. Do I need some kind of attic hatch on that side still incase of leaks or what not?

    Adding to that I guess, if there is no roof vents that means I use non-vented soffit as well correct?

    Edit: Or I think I'm misunderstanding and should use vented soffit, some vent baffles along the length of the roof to the top and then still have vents at the top? I keep finding different info but not all of it applies to our cold climate
    Here's my 2Ę but maybe 1.5Ę because I start to get confused with spray foaming ceilings or roofs...

    If you're spraying foam on the bottom of the roof sheathing, that means you are extending the "living space" envelope all the way to that surface. That means you want that area to be ~as warm as the area you normally occupy. So, that tells me zero roof vents and to not use ventilated soffits. Sounds rational, right? I'm happy to be proven wrong by someone more experienced in this.
    In a house, you are required to put drywall over spray foam to provide a small fire barrier as it is flammable like gasoline. Barring that, you have to use this other blown-on shit (such as in rim joist cavities) to "protect" from fire. There is a tiny chance that you would not be required to do this in a garage... I don't know if the code varies for a space where people don't sleep. But you still should because it's crazy-flammable.
    Note that it's about $4/sq-ft so do some mArTh now and realize how incredibly expensive this will be, plus your Op-Costs go up (somewhat) because you're heating WAY more airspace.

    Now, let's tackle spray foam on the attic side of the ceiling. Is what's in my skull bucket coming out onto these words? Your garage has a ceiling with an attic hatch in it and on the other side of that ceiling/drywall (on the "attic side") is spray foam. This strategy indicates you want the occupied space to be warm and you don't give a shit about the attic, so you need it to be as close to the outside temp as possible by having roof vents and ventilated soffit. Sound rational? Again - someone else chime in if I'm talking crazy. This will be WAY cheaper as the sq-ft to spray foam will be some pythagorean-ratio of way-the-fuck-less. Plus, you MIGHT not have to put fire barrier on it and you're not wasting energy heating your attic.


    Hope this helps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pheoxs View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    So a few updates:

    - Star building quoted me 13.5k for the building package which is high but seems reasonable for the current supply chain issues. I called a few places pricing out stuff like the garage door, man door, windows, etc and all the pricing seems consistent unfortunately.
    - Impact Concrete got back to me and quoted 24k (!) for the garage pad, which isn't happening. Rolling mix took my info, called me to ask a few questions then hasn't got back to me yet.

    I did have a question about insulation, for the scissor trusses it seems the easiest way is to pay someone to spray foam the ceiling but from what I've read if I go that route I -don't- want any ventilation in that portion of the roof correct? If that's the case then would it just be spray foam the inside of the sheathing, then throw up drywall on the bottom of the trusses. Do I need some kind of attic hatch on that side still incase of leaks or what not?

    Adding to that I guess, if there is no roof vents that means I use non-vented soffit as well correct?

    Edit: Or I think I'm misunderstanding and should use vented soffit, some vent baffles along the length of the roof to the top and then still have vents at the top? I keep finding different info but not all of it applies to our cold climate
    I spray foamed the roof where the scissor trusses are because I didn't really know how to insulate otherwise. If spray foam is what you do, directly on the roof, you don't need a vented soffit, or roof vents. It also won't matter of they are vented, the just block them and foam as normal. I have vented soffit and roof vents because I didn't know what I was planning until everything was built. No big deal, and gives you either option. If you spray foam, it needs to have a fire barrier. Paint or drywall. I think drywall needs to be 5/8 to be a fire barrier.no attic hatch would be needed because it would be conditioned space. Plus there would be hardly any space between the bottom of the scissor truss and the spray foam. You can pop by to check it out of you want. Might help to see it in person.

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    Quote Originally Posted by arcticcat522 View Post
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    I spray foamed the roof where the scissor trusses are because I didn't really know how to insulate otherwise. If spray foam is what you do, directly on the roof, you don't need a vented soffit, or roof vents. It also won't matter of they are vented, the just block them and foam as normal. I have vented soffit and roof vents because I didn't know what I was planning until everything was built. No big deal, and gives you either option. If you spray foam, it needs to have a fire barrier. Paint or drywall. I think drywall needs to be 5/8 to be a fire barrier.no attic hatch would be needed because it would be conditioned space. Plus there would be hardly any space between the bottom of the scissor truss and the spray foam. You can pop by to check it out of you want. Might help to see it in person.
    If you don’t mind I’ll take you up on that sometime. Do you know how much they insulated your roof? I’ve been reading if it isn’t R40 that I may run into issues of moisture in the sheathing though being there’s a membrane barrier I don’t understand how that’s a thing.

    If you drywall over the bottom of the scissor trusses does that not close in the attic space a bit? The drywall being a barrier between the conditioned space and the inside of the trusses?
    Nolan

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    Hey check out Spray Jones vid's on youtube and reach out to them if you still have questions.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pheoxs View Post
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    If you donít mind Iíll take you up on that sometime. Do you know how much they insulated your roof? Iíve been reading if it isnít R40 that I may run into issues of moisture in the sheathing though being thereís a membrane barrier I donít understand how thatís a thing.
    That's not moisture from the outside. It's another version of "attic rain". The warm moist air from the living space will condense on a cold surface and since the exterior of the roof could be -35įC then it will take a great deal of insulation to keep the living space side above the dew point of the house air. I'm not sure that the magic # is R40, but it's going to be a big number.
    Over the thickness of only 4.5" or 6" you've got -35įC on one side and +20įC on the other. So that's a 55į delta which is asking a lot. Again, I bet that just made it $7/sq-ft instead of "only" $4.
    It's so awesome... But $$$...$$$$

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    Quote Originally Posted by pheoxs View Post
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    If you don’t mind I’ll take you up on that sometime. Do you know how much they insulated your roof? I’ve been reading if it isn’t R40 that I may run into issues of moisture in the sheathing though being there’s a membrane barrier I don’t understand how that’s a thing.

    If you drywall over the bottom of the scissor trusses does that not close in the attic space a bit? The drywall being a barrier between the conditioned space and the inside of the trusses?
    Looks like I only did 4 inches of foam. R25 ish on the roof. I suppose you could get some moisture trapped between the drywall and spray foam? That's why I just painted the foam. Both above and below are within the conditioned envelope?? I'm not sure.

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