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Thread: Putin vs Ukraine.

  1. #461
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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
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    We don't have to intervene in every conflict. We can declare we don't like certain activities and conflicts - Ukraine is a good example. But we should be very careful about how we choose where to get involved. Every conflict in the world isn't one that is worth our efforts and resources. Ukraine is one of those also.
    This is very true. However Ukraine gave up its strategic defensive weapons (ie nuclear warheads and their delivery systems) circa the mid 1990s bases on a promise, a signed accord at that, that the USA et al would stand in Ukraine's defense should they ever be threatened, much less invaded.

    So despite the blatant corruption in Ukraine, if nations start backing out of promises like that, what makes other countries want to trust us (the West) when we promise anything? Say for a country where we may actually give a crap about in terms of how it affects us, like Taiwan?

    So far as Putin threatening the West with nuclear weapons - concerning, yes, but rattling your saber makes noise. Drawing does not. Still, it's at least as concerning IMO that Russia may not achieve its aims and Putin will start making really dangerous decisions, than it is having Russia succeed.

    Let's examine some notable American foreign military interventions since, say, WW1.

    WW2: "France, Germany, Japan, most of the south pacific: here is your land back from oppressive governments, please setup functioning democracies and don't do this again. Rest of pacific: you're going to be destabilized and general fuckery will occur". That ain't empire building.

    Korea: "We don't want communism, so we're going to fight it. But after you can have your country back, please setup a democracy (eventually), we'll even help you defend it." That ain't empire building.

    Vietnam: See Korea

    Central and South America: "We would rather have instability than Marxist/Communist regimes. Also stop trying to import coke into our country. Also fuck you Cuba." That ain't empire building.

    Iraq and Afghanistan: "We need to project some power here, but afterwards we'll hand your country, could you guys setup democracies, and create nations. Fuck this isn't working." That ain't empire building.


    There is a lot to complain about with American foreign policy and projection of power. But it is not in the DNA of the country to go conquer some land and make it theirs. The closest you could argue that this is the case with the US, is their projection of power to maintain the petro dollar and the USD as the reserve currency. Otherwise, one thing they understand is that it is beneficial to them for strategic foreign countries to be democratic. Democracies tend to not fight each other in wars and Americans tend to benefit from the economic expansion of foreign democracies.

    (And yes, Kert was confused about the word anomalous.)
    Well said Buster.
    Last edited by Gman.45; 02-26-2022 at 08:01 PM.

  2. #462
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    I watching this guys video yesterday, anyone who understands Russian will find this video pretty truthful. This guy is out of Kharkiv driving around and commenting about the situation. At 8 minute mark he says, roughly translated "We have a fuck ton of frozen brain nationalists, who won't give up, so there will be lots of deaths on both ends. The war is not needed for anyone. If the Americans attacked us I understand, I would join the army myself to fight them"

    At the 11 minute mark he says probably the best part of anything I have ever heard anyone says. He goes "I hope there is minimal casualties from this. At the end of the day it's all our people (Russians + Ukrainians) who are not at fault for any of this. To solve this problem, they should make a big boxing ring, shove Mr. Biden, Zelensky and Putin into the cage, give them weapons, and let them fight it out with knifes and axes, and we will watch it all and clap" Very rough translation, my Russian sucks.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UtPRsxm37Q&t=7s

    I like these on the ground type videos, right now things in the cities are calm and I hope they remain so. Call me crazy, but I know that killing innocent civilians is not of interest to anyone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by eblend View Post
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    The live feeds out of the cities seem dead as hell, nothing is happening, so perhaps why not much is being filmed? Seems most of the fighting is on outskirts where not as many people maybe. Maybe that's why there is so much misinformation out there, to fill in the void
    I would agree. It's been said in media (which I tend not to listen to much) that Russian forces are having difficulty advancing. What we do see is a some destruction of equipment on highways, etc, but Kyiv's live cams aren't showing much. With that said, as upsetting as this is to see for both the Ukrainian and Russian people, it's also quite fascinating to see it unfold so close up and so quickly. Everything earlier like Desert Storm and even as recent as Afghanistan were not as connected as we see today. I'm sure there will be plenty to see as this progresses...

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    Quote Originally Posted by ExtraSlow View Post
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    Icbm is a weird choice for this type of battle. But I recall the MIRV being an awesome weapon in Scorched Earth.

    - - - Updated - - -

    ICBM basically useless against Ukraine. But useful for Britain, USA, Italy etc.

    So, only required if we doing WWIII now.
    The types of ballistic missiles that are being used aren't necessarily "intercontinental". I posted in the first few posts here about the Iskander line of TEL ballistic missile systems the Russians are in love with. These are guided conventional warhead armed ballistic missiles. Very fast, very accurate, and due to both their warhead and velocity, are very effective and more difficult to intercept than cruise missiles. They can be armed with nuclear warheads, but are typically a conventional HE warhead, fuel air explosive warhead, or sometimes armed with submunitions. There are various models, but even the longest ranged ones only fly about 500km, and most far less than that.

    Back when Russian took the Crimea in 2014, there are pics of a battalion of Iskander launchers effects on a Ukrainian tank depot, it's on Google somewhere still.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9K720_Iskander

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    The Twitter pics look like a much larger missle, no?

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    Quote Originally Posted by arcticcat522 View Post
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    The Twitter pics look like a much larger missle, no?
    MySpace angle.
    Originally posted by SJW
    Once again another useless post by JRSCOOLDUDE.
    Originally posted by snowcat
    Don't let the e-thugs and faggots get to you when they quote your posts and write stupid shit.
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    I say stupid shit all the time.
    ^^ Fact Checked

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    Y'know all of this could have been avoided if the F-35 was a more capable air to air fighter with longer range.

    I get the oddest feeling that the USA is hesitant to use said F-35 on fear of losing too many. If say, the USA loses 1 to every 2 older russian MiGs, this is still on a scale where they cannot possible recover all the downed planes.

    Spending all that money on tech for all those decades, just to have it stolen trying to shoot down a dozen sopwith camels... USA painted itself into a corner.

    Its the same with them aliens trying to invade earth. One single downed UFO scout that they spent thousands of years to develop, and all of a sudden Humans are a worthy adversary in a day.
    Last edited by ZenOps; 02-26-2022 at 08:38 PM.
    0.5 gram microsd delivered by 12,000 pound combustion vehicle and driver.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
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    Let's examine some notable American foreign military interventions since, say, WW1.
    What a convenient timeframe to pick. When nobody was acting like an empire, and just after so many countries, including the USA, were.

    How about, let’s say, after then end of the War of 1812?

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    Quote Originally Posted by kertejud2 View Post
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    What a relevant timeframe to pick.
    ftfy

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    Quote Originally Posted by Buster View Post
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    ftfy
    Also ignored some key imperialist moments between WWI and WWII for the US, but if you ignore Half of history why care about that?

    The country’s DNA was based on taking territory and expanding and spreading doctrine. Both directly and indirectly. It’s been the basis of Us foreign policy since The beginning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JRSC00LUDE View Post
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    MySpace angle.
    Do the current kids even know what myspace is?

  12. #472
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    A lot of movement in Europe with flights. Interesting if this plane is a government figure heading to the west from Moscow for a meeting. Nice plane.

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    @Buster wanted a link. I just use the website but there is also an app. I'm sure you could dial it in better.
    The icons do match different planes. Can see some Cold Lake fighters sometimes.

    https://www.flightradar24.com/UPC8503/2af4c14c


    USA F16 over Hungary now.
    https://www.flightradar24.com/VIPER11/2af4df76

    Site can take time to load all the planes. Be patient.
    Last edited by mr2mike; 02-26-2022 at 10:45 PM.

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    http://https://www.flightradar24.com/RSD088/2af4d245

    Someone important

    Edit.......I don't know how to link.....

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    Last edited by arcticcat522; 02-26-2022 at 11:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sentry View Post
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    "Just two weeks to flatten the city"
    Probably
    Last edited by ExtraSlow; 02-27-2022 at 08:33 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by killramos View Post
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    You realize you are talking to the guy who made his own furniture out of salad bowls right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by arcticcat522 View Post
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    http://https://www.flightradar24.com/RSD088/2af4d245

    Someone important

    Edit.......I don't know how to link.....

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    They’re going to release zombie Lenin

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    Just go here for the interesting FR24 stuff:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/flightradar24/

  18. #478
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    Late night shitpost
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  19. #479
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    Sounds legit
    Quote Originally Posted by killramos View Post
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    You realize you are talking to the guy who made his own furniture out of salad bowls right?

  20. #480
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    Ace Dixicutioner in a day

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