Putin vs Ukraine.

[tcon]

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I'm going to say standard military tactic that you always send on your cheap and expendable units first.

This has been completely debunked. Plenty of highly trained boots on the ground in the first days of the invasion, which are now boots in the ground.

[Xtrema]

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It will take longer, but Russia will eventually declare their operation over and retreat.

That's not going to happen or at least not in 2022. Russia will take the east. If Ukraine can't get rid of separatists in Donbas, it won't get rid of whatever Russia officially takes out east.

Everything NATO does is just making it as expensive for Russia as possible and make their military looks like a joke. But in the end, Russia will take the east unless NATO officially intervene and really they won't since EU can't stop using Russia's gas.

Putin wants the east so he can declare victory at home. Ukraine wants everything back. And US is making sure this will be Russia's Afghanistan and that took almost 10 years to play out. US also seems to love the inflation collateral as well as China's BRI partners are going bankrupt one by one. I think US wants this war to drag on.

[Buster]

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That's not going to happen or at least not in 2022. Russia will take the east. If Ukraine can't get rid of separatists in Donbas, it won't get rid of whatever Russia officially takes out east.

Everything NATO does is just making it as expensive for Russia as possible and make their military looks like a joke. But in the end, Russia will take the east unless NATO officially intervene and really they won't since EU can't stop using Russia's gas.

Putin wants the east so he can declare victory at home. Ukraine wants everything back. And US is making sure this will be Russia's Afghanistan and that took almost 10 years to play out. US also seems to love the inflation collateral as well as China's BRI partners are going bankrupt one by one. I think US wants this war to drag on.

I think this is pretty close to the reality

[ZenOps]

Heavy bombers and fighters are in. Biden says "Genocide". Never seen such reckless running of the mouth.

[AndyL]

[Yolobimmer]

It's strange to me that people keep saying Russia keeps losing, yet if you google pictures of Ukraine, it is destroyed and they control the east.

Exactly what John Mearsheimer predicted they would do - 8 years ago. Remeber. He said they don't want to take over the Ukraine. They want to destroy it.

Anyone else tired of seeing the fascist loving wanker Zelinski groveling for help on TV?

[jutes]

I love watching Russias massive Army be absolute cowards and get their shit pushed in. The entire country is essentially the Middle East of the north and nothing to offer but oil and gas.

[Buster]

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I love watching Russias massive Army be absolute cowards and get their shit pushed in. The entire country is essentially the Middle East of the north and nothing to offer but oil and gas.

I honestly thought they would roll over Ukraine. I wasn't expecting a shit kicking from the underdogs. I really want to know how much intelligence is getting fed to them from the US.

[Darell_n]

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I honestly thought they would roll over Ukraine. I wasn't expecting a shit kicking from the underdogs. I really want to know how much intelligence is getting fed to them from the US.

The Ukrainians are coming off 8 years of on the job training defending their home while the Russians have been just fucking around with propaganda and sending their old junk from their warehouses on safari with conscripts. Whether or not that describes all of the Russian army, who knows?

[Yolobimmer]

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I honestly thought they would roll over Ukraine. I wasn't expecting a shit kicking from the underdogs. I really want to know how much intelligence is getting fed to them from the US.

Really? The US couldn't beat a few cave dwellers in 20 years.

[littledan]

Putin is for sure kicking himself for not invading in 2014

[ZenOps]

Unlike the US, this is not a shock and awe. Although there was a good chance that Ukraine might have surrendered on the second day, it didn't happen.

Biden seems unwavering, he really wants this one to grow. Not sure why, but I can imagine it might be to get more funding from Europe through NATO.

[ExtraSlow]

USA and most of Europe clearly has no problem with this war dragging on. I don't support that stance, but it's obvious. A negotiated settlement is possible and with economic support from USA and Europe, it wouldn't even be complex.

Sad that nobody seems to give a shit about saving Ukrainian lives.

[jutes]

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USA and most of Europe clearly has no problem with this war dragging on. I don't support that stance, but it's obvious. A negotiated settlement is possible and with economic support from USA and Europe, it wouldn't even be complex.

Sad that nobody seems to give a shit about saving Ukrainian lives.

Or the tens of thousands of Russian conscripts killed. All on Putins hands.

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I honestly thought they would roll over Ukraine. I wasn't expecting a shit kicking from the underdogs. I really want to know how much intelligence is getting fed to them from the US.

24/7 satellite, drone and aircraft surveillance support. Not to mention a few "volunteers" from NATO special forces who've crossed the Polish border in plain clothing.


Ukraine won't give up Donbas to end Russia’s war.

President Volodymyr Zelensky told CNN that Ukraine is prepared to defend Donbas against Russian forces in a battle he says could influence the course of the entire war.
https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/...CzxbOf6YgqAAAA

This will drag on for years unless Russia falls back.

[suntan]

A Russian leader throwing lives away???

I am shocked I tell you, shocked.

[ThePenIsMightier]

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USA and most of Europe clearly has no problem with this war dragging on. I don't support that stance, but it's obvious. A negotiated settlement is possible and with economic support from USA and Europe, it wouldn't even be complex.

Sad that nobody seems to give a shit about saving Ukrainian lives.

How do you picture "economic support from US/Europe" fitting into this picture? I don't know what you mean.

I am not a fan of any type of negotiations where another foreign country barters away a country they don't own. See: Neville Chamberlain.

*Edit - I don't think you're suggesting that... But it's worth clarifying

[ExtraSlow]

I don't have it all figured out by any stretch. But any negotiated settlement will involve Ukraine being smaller, military guarantees, and money to rebuild whatever is left of Ukraine.

Part 2 and 3 is where Europe and USA can be very supportive.

[Yolobimmer]

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Unlike the US, this is not a shock and awe. Although there was a good chance that Ukraine might have surrendered on the second day, it didn't happen.

Biden seems unwavering, he really wants this one to grow. Not sure why, but I can imagine it might be to get more funding from Europe through NATO.

The Russians took MUCH more care to advance slowly, leave evacuation routes open etc...

They sacrificed many military lives to save civilian ones. Putin is a real man.

Whatever Biden accuses Russia of, the US has done 100x worse for sketchier reasons.

[Buster]

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How do you picture "economic support from US/Europe" fitting into this picture? I don't know what you mean.

I am not a fan of any type of negotiations where another foreign country barters away a country they don't own. See: Neville Chamberlain.

*Edit - I don't think you're suggesting that... But it's worth clarifying

They aren't bartering with Ukraine, they are bartering with the leverage they provide. Which is fair.

[Kloubek]

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This will drag on for years unless Russia falls back.

They won't fall back. At least, not so long as Putin is in power. From a political perspective, he will have to position his actions as having justified tens of thousands of Russian lives lost, and that can only happen if he can claim Russia gained something.

Ideally, he would have taken Kiev, installed his own government and left a legacy of a "great union". The risk being that Ukraine would likely have continued civil war, but that wouldn't really be his problem as long as he ensures his installed government remains in power.

So why not downscale the same approach, and create a buffer of republics. Again, they will see continued violence but no biggie, because it will show Ukraine attacking "independent republics". Maybe invade again when support for Ukraine has waned.

All so contrived.