Putin vs Ukraine.

[JRSC00LUDE]

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I often reflect on how blood and guts are acceptable in Western culture on movies/video games but not in real life. Can't help but think we're all a bit desensitized to the impact of a lot of our foreign policies because of it.

The soy-fed chicks with the butchy haircuts call that white privlege.

[Kloubek]

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Claims of chemical weapons being used as a headline. But may just be phosphorus?

Considering that it was Azov who claimed a chemical attack, plus the fact there are no reports of anyone dying, I'm not sure I believe any of it. Biden did indeed draw a red line as to the use of such weapons, so there better be indisputable proof before he acts on it. And that's exactly what it seems like - I don't believe any Western countries have made any condemnations yet.

Convenient video/stories out one day later showing Russian forces "finding" drones owned by Ukraine forces with liquid tanks attached - designed to distribute aerosol payload. Unclear as to:
1) If they are truly Ukrainian
2) If there were possessed by Ukrainian forces and not the public
3) If there were used for non-nefarious uses, like for crop dusting

Because, yes, of course, it's always the Ukranians fault. It isn't like they are being invaded or anything...

[Buster]

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It was interesting living in the Middle East as news channels showed everything. Decapitated bodies. Dead children. Living skeletons on the verge of death from hunger.

I often reflect on how blood and guts are acceptable in Western culture on movies/video games but not in real life. Can't help but think we're all a bit desensitized to the impact of a lot of our foreign policies because of it.

Would that news channel have showed a picture of The Prophet?

[ZenOps]

Ground update and predictions from Binkov. Yup, could be a solid two year war for the southern small cities. Kiev looks like a decade long battle if Putin decides to try again later.

Some are predicting that Mariupol will fall tomorrow.

[davidI]

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Would that news channel have showed a picture of The Prophet?

No... Do you watch news that shows pictures of God? Or Buddha? Or a brown Jesus?

[Buster]

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No... Do you watch news that shows pictures of God? Or Buddha? Or a brown Jesus?

No, but they can without getting firebombed.

[Yolobimmer]

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In war, everything is a false flag.

Never give up a sheltered position, the new guy claiming to be on your side - probably isn't on your side.

The most important question is "who benefits from this".

And you have your answer.

So far, the Ukranians have proved themselves very poor actors.

[littledan]

Wow. Flagship cruiser of black see fleet Mockba hit and sunk.

Makes me think that it was actually hit directly by Nato and not Ukrainian forces. They probably know that Russia doesn't have the surveillance capability to figure out specifically where the missile came from or who fired it. And since Nato supplying the hardware, if it was a dud and they recovered the debris of the missile then Nato could still claim they didn't fire it.

[jutes]

We will just ignore the E-3 Sentry and P-8 over the Black Sea.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

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Wow. Flagship cruiser of black see fleet Mockba hit and sunk.

Makes me think that it was actually hit directly by Nato and not Ukrainian forces. They probably know that Russia doesn't have the surveillance capability to figure out specifically where the missile came from or who fired it. And since Nato supplying the hardware, if it was a dud and they recovered the debris of the missile then Nato could still claim they didn't fire it.

The Ukrainians claim it was one of their home-grown missile designs (Neptune), I'd say "lucky shot by the Ukrainians" and "Russian seamen accidentally set own ship packed to the bulwarks with ammunition on fire" to be more likely than NATO taking direct action.

[ThePenIsMightier]

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No, but they can without getting firebombed.

Isn't that what happened to Juicy Charlie???!
I changed my Facebork status for that and urverything

[jutes]

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The Ukrainians claim it was one of their home-grown missile designs (Neptune), I'd say "lucky shot by the Ukrainians" and "Russian seamen accidentally set own ship packed to the bulwarks with ammunition on fire" to be more likely than NATO taking direct action.

US/UK has personnel on the ground feeding the Uks intel, this is almost certain. This is what happened with the Moskva attack, a drone or some other NATO intel aircraft found it's location and relayed that info to Ukrainian troops. Apparently, Ukraine flew two UCAVs to distract the ship while targeting it with the Neptune. Lets not forget these things: It's an old ass ship, crew is complacent/incompetent with untrained conscripts, equipment doesn't work due to corruption and maintenance, crew had their guard down and were distracted while the Neptunes popped up over the horizon. If Russians Army has shown great incompetence, the Navy isn't that far off. This wasn't a lucky shot by any means, the Russians are just that bad. At everything.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

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US/UK has personnel on the ground feeding the Uks intel, this is almost certain. This is what happened with the Moskva attack, a drone or some other NATO intel aircraft found it's location and relayed that info to Ukrainian troops. Apparently, Ukraine flew two UCAVs to distract the ship while targeting it with the Neptune. Lets not forget these things: It's an old ass ship, crew is complacent/incompetent with untrained conscripts, equipment doesn't work due to corruption and maintenance, crew had their guard down and were distracted while the Neptunes popped up over the horizon. If Russians Army has shown great incompetence, the Navy isn't that far off. This wasn't a lucky shot by any means, the Russians are just that bad. At everything.

To clarify, I meant "lucky" as in "lucky to set off an ammo explosion" rather than "lucky to hit the ship". The Ukrainians appear to be far more competent than the Russian bungle brigade.

[AndyL]

I'm starting to think we're vastly over estimating Russia's potential threat.

We should probably just impose a NATO no fly zone. Think Putin can actually get a nuke airborne?

[arcticcat522]

It's the hypersonic missiels that are worrisome, no?

[jutes]

A no-fly zone is kinda pointless at this stage, plus Ukraine has shown they can effectively shoot down aircraft. It’s the constant shelling artillery fire that’s murdering civilians and destroying cities. Without going into a full space war, best thing US/UK/Euro can do is flood Ukraine with tanks and weapons. It will take longer, but Russia will eventually declare their operation over and retreat.

[ExtraSlow]

Why on earth would any member of NATO want to change anything about this conflict?

[Buster]

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A no-fly zone is kinda pointless at this stage, plus Ukraine has shown they can effectively shoot down aircraft. It’s the constant shelling artillery fire that’s murdering civilians and destroying cities. Without going into a full space war, best thing US/UK/Euro can do is flood Ukraine with tanks and weapons. It will take longer, but Russia will eventually declare their operation over and retreat.

this is wishful thinking.

[vengie]

Remember that time earlier in this thread where I called out the incompetence of the Russian army and their deployment of WW2 tactics and was called out by people saying wait until they unleash their modern weapons?


Yeah, Pepperidge farms remembers.

[ZenOps]

NATO doesn't need anymore of a push to get all the white nations unified. Strength through superior firepower.

In the very short run though, this does have the potential to shatter economies though. Supporting a "superior" military is expensive - and can definitely come at the cost of actual hunger in Europe. Spending $1.7 trillon on F-35s does mean that someone will have to go hungry on a $5 loaf of bread somewhere.

Why do nations always starve their citizens in time of conflict? Some say its the way that the the military gets people motivated to fight?

White supremacy is not the "draw" it once was back in the 1940's (of which the majority of Europe was "for"). It is much more difficult to get a young person in 2022 to believe that European *white* superiority is worth killing and dying for, especially at survival bread wages. Dark days loom over Europa.