Putin vs Ukraine.

[Buster]

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Yah, that is unfortunately going to be the case as long as Ukraine allows those types of groups to exist and doesn't outlaw them and actually crack down on them, something that they obviously haven't been doing. If DNR and LNR are indeed to become independent states, and their independence is set in stone in some agreement, then continued bombing of those regions by insurgents won't look good on Ukraine, and would basically be no different for DNR/LNR as they have already endured this for the last 8 years.

As unpopular of an opinion as this might be, I called it back in 2014 that by Crimea getting reabsorbed into Russia (by choice or forced, up for debate), they did save themselves a ton of headaches that Donbas region had to endure for last 8 years. I bet if they could go back in time, Putin would have grabbed DNR/LNR officially at that time, before Ukraine had 8 years to dig in their defenses and thus slow down the current progress.

Every day I wake up and check my phone and hoping that there is some news that this war is over, and every day so far I am disappointed. Pride needs to be swallowed by many people, the West, Ukraine, Russia, and they just need to fucking deal with this and come up with some solution. Aside from the skinheads, no-one else needs to die.

It will just shift from being a civil war in a part of Ukraine to a civil war in a part of Russia. Either way, it's shitty. But the latter appears to be somewhat more stable.

[zechs]

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At some point there will need to be a choice between "winning" and "ending" this war.

Winning this war means escalation and extension without a doubt. I don't think that's the path I'd choose.

Not throwing shade specifically at you, but it is always important to know where you stand as an individual on moral grounds.

Out of any war we've had in decades, this seems to be one that there are mostly justified reasons for gritting our teeth and staying with it. If Canada was in the same boat (and not a part of NATO), I'd hope the rest of the world came to our aid in a time of need.

Not often you can get me to care about something, but Ukraine seems something worth caring about.

[ThePenIsMightier]

Has no one posted this, yet?



I'm too lazy to look/sift through the turds in this thread. I strongly suspect that this video is exponentially closer to the truth than anything we're being fed by the "CoVid is over - how do we keep the masses glued to our biased trash for another year¡??!?" media outlets. I think it's the first and only serious look I've taken since this started.

But they're already teaching my elementary school kids that Ukraine is good and collect money for them and Russia is bad... I haven't seen such a coordinated effort to unilaterally decide something is a fact since the human affects on climate change...

[eblend]

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It will just shift from being a civil war in a part of Ukraine to a civil war in a part of Russia. Either way, it's shitty. But the latter appears to be somewhat more stable.

Maybe they will setup a DMZ or something, it would help DNR/LNR against insurgents, and would also help in the future if whatever is left of Ukraine does join NATO. If DNR/LNR do indeed split and basically become an extension of Russia, Ukraine becoming a NATO country in the future still doesn't help them, as NATO would still be right on their boarders.

I wonder how long after all of this is settled that ordinary Russians who want to travel to Ukraine to see family will be able to do so. Despite what is portrayed in the media, there is a ton of family relationships that span that boarder. My aunt lives in Kiev (as well as Uncle and two nephews and their families) and when my grandma (RIP) got sick in 2015, my aunt couldn't even go see her dying mom who lived not far away in south Russia, something she used to do often before 2014.

Oh an unrelated and more happy note, an oil tanker manned by 50% Russians and 50% Ukrainians saved a Calgary sailor and his mates out in the open ocean. On a people level, if you leave the politics out of it, we all could be friends, and I believe mostly still are.

https://calgary.ctvnews.ca/calgary-s...inks-1.5833182

[whoreads]

To those who want to get more involved, what would you have Canada/US/Nato do, exactly?

Keep in mind, this is Russia's 8th war in 40 years, its 5th under Putin. And unlike US/Nato, they keep winning.

Any Nato involvement would lead to a mandatory draft for all men under 50, destruction of the world's economy and possibly the world as we know it.

[Buster]

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Not often you can get me to care about something, but Ukraine seems something worth caring about.

What makes Ukraine special?

There's a lot of shit that goes down in the world. Ukraine's just one of those things.

[whoreads]

Yemen certainly seems like it's worth caring about. Hundreds of thousands of civilians, close to 100,000 children dead from starvation. 4 million displaced.
Rohingya genocide, Uyghur genocide. No one gives a shit.

[eblend]

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OK so what would you have Canada/US/Nato do, exactly?

Keep in mind, this is Russia's 8th war in 40 years, its 5th under Putin. And unlike US/Nato, they keep winning

I was just talking to my wife about this (who is from Japan by the way, so no relation to Ukraine/Russia directly) and she said something interesting and I tend to agree. We were watching a news segment of all these people doing donations to the Ukrainian cause, gathering clothes, diapers etc, and she said:

"Canadian culture is weird. People seem to do lots of donations and charity work, but none of it will have any affect on the war in Ukraine. People seem to do this just to feel good about themselves, so they don't feel guilty, but it's of not much real use"

Maybe I'm just being a cranky old fuck, but I seem to agree. Guilt for doing nothing leads to people doing something to make themselves feel better, and it has very little do to with actually supporting anything. Peer pressure.

I think a $1000 dollar donation to an animal shelter is much better spend of money then sending it to Ukraine, which let's be honest, will probably never make it to the intended recipients/cause. I dream about someday winning the lottery and being in the position to directly hand out money for those most in need.

[Xtrema]

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Not throwing shade specifically at you, but it is always important to know where you stand as an individual on moral grounds.

Ideology vs pragmatism. Disneyfication of our kids making a good size of population ignore all the gray area of everyday life. Cancel culture is the result.

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I think a $1000 dollar donation to an animal shelter is much better spend of money then sending it to Ukraine, which let's be honest, will probably never make it to the intended recipients/cause. I dream about someday winning the lottery and being in the position to directly hand out money for those most in need.

Keep charity effort close to home. Make your house clean and take on others from other countries who can't.

[eblend]

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Yemen certainly seems like it's worth caring about. Hundreds of thousands of civilians, close to 100,000 children dead from starvation. 4 million displaced.
Rohingya genocide, Uyghur genocide. No one gives a shit.

Because they aren't white bro. If nothing else the racism of the west is insane. Was in the news yesterday. Ukrainians are fast tracked to Canada, get free visitor visa, get free open work permist and study permits, a very different program than that for the Afghan refugees, which to this date brought in less people to Canada than came from Ukraine in the last few weeks. Also Russia = BAD, so we must care for those people because bad Russians doing things. USA can bomb the fuck out of anywhere and no-one gives a shit, because they haven't bombed a white country in a while.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/night-...hans-1.5831685

[jutes]

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Any Nato involvement would lead to a mandatory draft for all men under 50, destruction of the world's economy and possibly the world as we know it.

Don't know where you came up with that, but Canada can't even maintain a regular hiring of people in the Forces. Training everyone in Canada who is under 50 will not happen. This isn't the US. Any military involvement by NATO will not include Canada because we have nothing to contribute except words and solidarity. A conventional war with NATO involved will be very quick, Russia is quickly losing ground to Ukrainians and it doesn't appear that NATO involvement is required at this point anyway. Russia will lose.

Not caring about world issues is typical North America fortress talk, just burry your head in the sand. Canadians need a serious wake up call.

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Because they aren't white bro. If nothing else the racism of the west is insane. Was in the news yesterday. Ukrainians are fast tracked to Canada, get free visitor visa, get free open work permist and study permits, a very different program than that for the Afghan refugees, which to this date brought in less people to Canada than came from Ukraine in the last few weeks. Also Russia = BAD, so we must care for those people because bad Russians doing things. USA can bomb the fuck out of anywhere and no-one gives a shit, because they haven't bombed a white country in a while.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/night-...hans-1.5831685

Canada resettled 70k refugees from Syria since 2015, so it's not a racial issue. Besides, bringing in Ukrainians means you have people who want to work, not like your typical white teen Canadian who just wants to smoke pot and play video games all day.

[Buster]

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Don't know where you came up with that, but Canada can't even maintain a regular hiring of people in the Forces. Training everyone in Canada who is under 50 will not happen. This isn't the US. Any military involvement by NATO will not include Canada because we have nothing to contribute except words and solidarity. A conventional war with NATO involved will be very quick, Russia is quickly losing ground to Ukrainians and it doesn't appear that NATO involvement is required at this point anyway. Russia will lose.

Not caring about world issues is typical North America fortress talk, just burry your head in the sand. Canadians need a serious wake up call.

There is nothing wrong with caring.

But we don't need to be participating in other peoples' problems.

[whoreads]

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"Canadian culture is weird. People seem to do lots of donations and charity work, but none of it will have any affect on the war in Ukraine. People seem to do this just to feel good about themselves, so they don't feel guilty, but it's of not much real use"

Another good example of this is our federal government's feel-good environmental policy, where the only measurable effect is the damage it does to the economy.

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Because they aren't white bro. If nothing else the racism of the west is insane. Was in the news yesterday. Ukrainians are fast tracked to Canada, get free visitor visa, get free open work permist and study permits, a very different program than that for the Afghan refugees, which to this date brought in less people to Canada than came from Ukraine in the last few weeks.

Or, as this guy put it:

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Not often you can get me to care about something, but Ukraine seems something worth caring about.

I wonder, why Ukraine specifically? hmmm

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Also Russia = BAD, so we must care for those people because bad Russians doing things. USA can bomb the fuck out of anywhere and no-one gives a shit, because they haven't bombed a white country in a while.

Bro, hating Russians is apparently one of the last acceptable forms of bigotry in the west. It's always been en vogue, in fact it's becoming even more acceptable to denigrade and demean Russians these days.

[jutes]

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There is nothing wrong with caring.

But we don't need to be participating in other peoples' problems.

We as in NATO or Canada? Canada won't be contributing anything meaningful in any case for a long, long time even with an immediate defense budget increase. Canada is basically Iceland now without the fermented shark at 7-11s.

[ExtraSlow]

There is zero reason for NATO to be involved in this. That's right in the mission statement of that organization. NATO is not the world police.

[jutes]

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There is zero reason for NATO to be involved in this. That's right in the mission statement of that organization. NATO is not the world police.

Well NATO is already involved indirectly by supplying weapons and intelligence. It's being in the war without being in the war. If NATO wasn't involved then Russia would've rolled over Ukraine by now.

[littledan]

despite the rhetoric in the west, russia is not losing this war.

[Xtrema]

Relevant

[killramos]

Cool. Can't wait for you to apply the same logic to every left wing protest that Antifa or unashamed communists show up to.

Best I can tell if a single one of those people shows up you literally support Stalin and Mao killing tens of millions in the name of communism.

[ExtraSlow]

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Best I can tell if a single one of those people shows up you literally support Stalin and Mao killing tens of millions in the name of communism.

I think we all do, don't we?