Poorly installed furnace by cardel homes/service experts

[JordanEG6]

Early January 2022, a pressure issue triggered error codes on my furnace, which caused the furnace to shut off. This happened a few times during the cold snap which was so annoying, I'd wake up to 10 deg in my house. I've had a few technicians from different companies diagnose the problem. Long story short, the conclusion was that the secondary heat exchanger either has a hole or a crack due to water corrosion, which is causing the furnace to produce errors.

Based on the diagnosis, the only way for my secondary heat exchanger to fault after only 8 years of service, was if it was not draining water properly. The only way this would happen is if there is a plug on the drainage system (which there wasn't) or if the furnace was installed without properly grading the unit to allow for proper drainage. And through the 8 years of not allowing water drainage, the water wasn't able to drain, therefore, corroding the inside of the secondary heat exchanger.

I expressed my concerns to Lennox and Cardel Homes and they both referred me to one of their official dealers in Calgary, Service Experts who did the initial install. I called Service Experts to express the same concern and they had told me that they only deal with warranty issues that are less than 1-2 years old. While I do understand this, I believe this is a special case as this issue was an 8 year build up of a poorly installed piece of equipment, which I wouldn't have caught nor would any service techs catch as they would have to physically take the heat exchanger out, which they do not do on yearly maintenance service.

I was then transferred to A1 Chesney (their sister company) who sent out a technician also named Rob. After a second opinion, I told him that the furnace was installed poorly and was not properly graded, I also have previous documents of the diagnosis from another company stating such. And he also saw that the previous technicians had temporarily fixed the issue by tilting the unit slightly (by a few millimeters) to drain the water out. He also concluded that it was a heat exchanger issue and offered to replace the part under warranty.

This is where it gets frustrating. My spouse and I called Service Experts and spoke to the Manager, also named Rob and pointed out to him that the labor should also be covered because this is something that is beyond home-owner control and is impossible to catch through regular yearly service. He told us that they could cover it if it was on A1 Chesney's notes on the field call to my house.

Service Experts' Manager Rob apparently spoke to Rob from A1 Chesney about the issue. A1 Chesney lied and told Service Experts that I did not mention a poorly installed/graded furnace, which is simply untrue as this is literally why the furnace is failing. Service Experts then refused to cover labor as there were no notes on the service call regarding the install or cause of errors. If the heat exchanger is compromised, it would be because of a poorly graded furnace. Why else would water be pooling inside the furnace if the drainage system is not clogged?

I called Service Experts again to explain to them that the only way for the furnace to fail is because of a poorly graded install. They would not give me a straight answer. Rob at Service Experts asked me if I had the past 8 years of receipts from service techs on my yearly maintenance, to which I replied 'no', although I do get it serviced annually, I don't keep 8 years of receipts. He then turned it around on me saying that if I serviced the furnace regularly, this would not have happened and he basically implied that I was lying about getting it serviced. If this was true, this would be the first thing they'd bring up the first time I called.

Service technicians on annual maintenance calls, do not rip out and clean the heat exchanger. I found this out through Rob at A1 Chesney (on the initial field call) as this service is not included in yearly maintenance and is also $800 in labor. Rob even looked at the heat exchanger from the outside and said it looked okay and the problem was on the inside. So, no, even with yearly maintenance (which I do so already), they would not have known about the water slowly killing the heat exchanger.

Rob at Service Experts maintained that his people installed it fine (when a week or so ago, he said the contrary, even said that they could cover it). I asked him multiple times if it was installed properly, why is my furnace producing these errors? He then became dismissive after not giving me a straight answer regarding this issue and the labor that they should swallow for not doing a job properly. He then referred me to Lennox, whom I called already. Rob at Service Experts did not seem to care about the issue anymore and basically told me to kick rocks and call Lennox.

I called Lennox anyway and they explained to me that the installation manual stated that the furnace may be installed at a slope to allow proper drainage. This was the extent of my call with them.

TL;DR

- Furnace had issues, causing the furnace to shut off multiple times.
- Called a bunch of companies to diagnose the problem - heat exchanger gone bad.
- A1 Chesney can replace it under warranty but don't cover labor.
- Service Experts initially empathized with my plight and said they'd cover labor if it were noted on A1's second opinion.
- A1 lied and said I did not mention a poorly installed furnace.
- Service Experts turned it around, tried to put the blame on me.
- Service Experts then said they did not commit an error and is not covering labor and told me to kick rocks.


Question is, am I in the right here? Or am I being a Karen, and am way out in left field by getting the warranty fully covered? I don't see why I should pay a cent for this. Even though it's been 8 years, this is clearly their fault and are not only taking responsibility, but back tracking then lying about it is what upset me more. Thoughts?

[ExtraSlow]

You can be right and still have no leg to stand on.

[killramos]

At this point I wouldn’t want these clowns anywhere near my furnace.

If you went 8 years with no issues on a modern furnace it sounds to me like you are way ahead on average maintenance.

[schurchill39]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

You can be right and still have no leg to stand on.

I hate to say it but @ExtraSlow is probably right here. Although you have had a pile of service techs out saying that that is the most likely issue, in order for them to cover it they need to know that it IS the issue. From their point of view its basically your word versus theirs (or better yet your money versus theirs). If it was installed incorrectly but still took 8 years to cause enough of an issue to cause damage then you're likely ahead of the curve if they cover parts and you cover labour. I'm also surprised the warranty information doesn't explicitly state that only parts are covered as the documentation for both my hot water tank and furnace state that labour is on me.

Anecdotally I had a similar issue with my Lennox furnance on my last house and was told it was likely the heat exchanger as well. I have a good friend at Knights who always helped out when I had that problem and said it was super common on Lennox units, so much so that if he got a service call half the time it would be for the heat exchanger. I wasn't about to drop the $2500 ish on a new one so I just did what I could but if you can get out of with with a new heat exchanger and only pay $800 I would take it.

If you actually truly do yearly maintenance (you'd be the first person I've ever heard of who pays someone to do that) then take it as a lesson to keep those receipts. If this is really a hill you want to die on you can try to sweet talk the admins at the company you have do that maintenance and ask if they can give you receipts or any record of your historic bookings.

[spikerS]

I get it and understand your position. And normally, I would agree with you and be trying to have the whole thing covered. Having said that, your furnace has been operational for 8 years. At that point, while it sucks, you are ahead of the game. Most warranty issues require receipts to show preventative maintenance was being done. Much like your car, you have to show that you upheld your side of the bargain and expecting them to take your word for it is never going to be enough.

I think that if they are offering to swap the parts and you cover the labour, in my mind that is a win and a more than fair compromise.

If that option is still on the table and you haven't created an overly hostile relationship with them, AND they are still willing to offer it, I would take it and be happy.

[ExtraSlow]

Yes, if they are offering free parts and you cover the labor, that's a better offer than I would expect given the way you described the situation.

[ThePenIsMightier]

^Good advice by smart people.
Please also ensure that the entire issue is actually a corroded HX and not simply a faulty pressure switch.
Modern pressure switches are complete and total pieces of shit and fail constantly.
Wouldn't it all be a wonderful surprise to have this be a ~$200 fix than whatever this is going to be?

[Rocket1k78]

Yeah hopefully you didnt burn the free parts bridge, id take that and run. Mine was a carrier and it was acting up on the 1st day of that cold spell last year and it was the heat exchanger due to corrosion, being that it was 12 years old i had the option to replace the heat ex for 2500 or get a new furnace for 4000. Ended up getting a new one

[ShermanEF9]

Agreed with the above. Unfortunately the time factor is not on your side. its usually why warranty's are what they are. I would take what you can get and run with it.

[littledan]

They could also argue that the basement floor shifted and that's why the level was off.