Taiwan MEGA thread

[Xtrema]

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Taiwan is not part of UN nor has any strategic importance to western society (NATO or otherwise).

Taiwan, according to the UN resolution 2758 belongs to China. It isn't a sovereign nation like Ukraine, therefore, I fail to see how Taiwan is more important than Ukraine.

In the whole scheme of thing, Taiwan isn't really that important.

But in the scheme of keeping China down/stunt its growth, it will be used as invasion bait. Much like what Putin stepped into right now. Just like Mearsheimer said, best way to end Russia is to get it to invade US, a way to end China is to bait it to invade Taiwan.


When Taiwan had its 1st election in 1996, China acted out and Clinton paraded a fleet thru the Taiwan strait and they STFU. But almost 30 years later, now there is a whole generation of Taiwanese that has been attached to elections and self determinations which China doesn't want. Now Tsai is running the country since 2016 toward the same path as Ukraine did, China may be running out patience and knew if they let democracy take its course, they will never have Taiwan back as the younger generation slowly want to join the west.

What China has over Russia is that we all use Chinese electronics that US is trying hard to break our habits on with limited success. And Chinese's equivalent systems are taking up shape and you see WeChat Pay and AliPay systems almost everywhere, especially in touristy areas. So as much as cutting China off swift may hurt, it won't hurt as much as it is against Russia. China is a lot more self sufficient that Russia is.

[Pacman]

I better stock up on boba pearls as there may be a supply issue soon.

[killramos]

The only way to end a nuclear power is to starve it.

Change my mind.

[JRSC00LUDE]

[KLCC]

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In the whole scheme of thing, Taiwan isn't really that important.

But in the scheme of keeping China down/stunt its growth, it will be used as invasion bait. Much like what Putin stepped into right now. Just like Mearsheimer said, best way to end Russia is to get it to invade US, a way to end China is to bait it to invade Taiwan.


When Taiwan had its 1st election in 1996, China acted out and Clinton paraded a fleet thru the Taiwan strait and they STFU. But almost 30 years later, now there is a whole generation of Taiwanese that has been attached to elections and self determinations which China doesn't want. Now Tsai is running the country since 2016 toward the same path as Ukraine did, China may be running out patience and knew if they let democracy take its course, they will never have Taiwan back as the younger generation slowly want to join the west.

Just for your information Tsai, and DPP is trash. Nearly all of them (DPP politicians) have duel citizenship, and in case of any conflict, they would fled to US or other places immediately. Thank god she has no term left. The internal political paralysis between DPP and KMT will end Taiwan all on its own (in my opinion)

[Xtrema]

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Just for your information Tsai, and DPP is trash. Nearly all of them (DPP politicians) have duel citizenship, and in case of any conflict, they would fled to US or other places immediately. Thank god she has no term left. The internal political paralysis between DPP and KMT will end Taiwan all on its own (in my opinion)

Unless something changes, doesn't look like KMT is having a good run in this year's election either. Regardless how trashy DPP and Tsai is.

But it's too early to see how this Ukraine thing is changing the minds of Taiwanese people as they are now seeing possibility/effect of invasion IRL.

One thing for sure, Taiwan is a good case for NOT having any recall legislations. It create a never ending election cycles.

[Xtrema]

Anyway, is a Chinese invasion imminent?

https://www.reuters.com/world/china/...rt-2022-02-28/
https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-p...it-2022-02-26/

Seems like a lot of people are focusing on it last few days.

[ExtraSlow]

It's not an invasion, it's support for oppressed persons.

[Manhattan]

If Hawaii wanted to secede and was located couple miles off the US coast imagine if China sent out warships to the California coastline... Technically speaking China/TW is a domestic/civil issue. US needs to get off its high horse because its had its fair share of human rights issues...past & present.

It might sound like I'm heavily in the pro-China camp but I'm actually for status quo in TW...I like TW the way it is. Just want to offer another perspective.

[Buster]

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Technically speaking China/TW is a domestic/civil issue.

I dont think the people of Taiwan think of it that way.

[Manhattan]

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I dont think the people of Taiwan think of it that way.

You mean the 97% of ethnic Chinese in TW? Taiwan considers itself a province (license all plates all say TW province). Same is true for N/S Korea. BOTH sides want reunification. They just disagree on how to get there. Would be mistake to see it thru the same lens as Russia/Ukraine even though there's some similarities.

Western democracies & ideas of freedom generally appeals more to younger gen. Dominance of American culture can't be understated either. Asian countries tend to value collectivism. Neither is wrong or objectively superior.

[ZenOps]

If you go by their computer keyboard, Taiwan is more Chinese than China is.

[Buster]

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You mean the 97% of ethnic Chinese in TW? Taiwan considers itself a province (license all plates all say TW province). Same is true for N/S Korea. BOTH sides want reunification. They just disagree on how to get there. Would be mistake to see it thru the same lens as Russia/Ukraine even though there's some similarities.

Western democracies & ideas of freedom generally appeals more to younger gen. Dominance of American culture can't be understated either. Asian countries tend to value collectivism. Neither is wrong or objectively superior.

Collectivism is inferior for a variety of moral and economic reasons.

Taiwan is a democracy.. Independence seems to be a priority for them.

[ZenOps]

There is a solid reason for China to pretend to invade Taiwan. To goad the USA into deploying the F-35.

USA has produced about 700 or so. If they "naturally" fail on launch and landing at a rate of two per month, all China really needs to do to get their hands on one would be to pretend invade to the point where they start putting them up in the sky or even around the ocean in the area. When two have been captured, one goes to Taiwan and one goes to China. Declare peace, win for everyone but the USA. Taiwan and China laugh all the way to the bank.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1999_F-117A_shootdown

Pretty high risk, but then again - maybe its high risk to *not* reverse engineer. That the F-35 can be objectively easy to shoot down air to air, makes it an even bigger war prize.

Braveheart spoilers.

[mr2mike]

Free Tibet!

[Xtrema]

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same is true for n/s korea. Both sides want reunification. US/China/Russia just disagree on how to get there. Would be mistake to see it thru the same lens as russia/ukraine even though there's some similarities.

ftfy

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Western democracies & ideas of freedom generally appeals more to younger gen. Dominance of American culture can't be understated either. Asian countries tend to value collectivism. Neither is wrong or objectively superior.

If polls are to be trusted, independence vs status quo is now at 53% vs 25% and will accelerate as old gen fades away. This is why DPP has been running it since 2016 and this conflict will be inevitable eventually unless somehow magically CCP gives it up.

China's demand isn't any different than Putin's demand on Ukraine. They will let Taiwan do their own thing as long as they don't call for independence. ADIZ violation is just a daily reminder of that. China wants to buy time to dominate it thru economy and attract more people to leave Taiwan to work in mainland to increase ties. After South China see island grab, China believes Taiwan is the last military strategic weak point.

[Manhattan]

^

As important as TW is for military strategy I think the biggest reason is just for there to be a single united Chinese state. This is what a lot of media miss thru a western lens. For most of 2 thousand years China has been ruled under a single regime and it has become part of their ethnic identity. I believe Korea is the same way. Unlike Europe where each country was divided into hundreds of smaller fiefdoms and only organized into their current nation states in relatively recent history.

[Manhattan]

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Collectivism is inferior for a variety of moral and economic reasons.

Taiwan is a democracy.. Independence seems to be a priority for them.

It essentially boils down to utilitarianism vs kantianism. We haven't solved that question yet as a species. China has proven with its growth under capitalism that their version of collectivism works at least economically.

[Xtrema]

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^

As important as TW is for military strategy I think the biggest reason is just for there to be a single united Chinese state. This is what a lot of media miss thru a western lens. For most of 2 thousand years China has been ruled under a single regime and it has become part of their ethnic identity. I believe Korea is the same way. Unlike Europe where each country was divided into hundreds of smaller fiefdoms and only organized into their current nation states in relatively recent history.

Justifying land based on history is a slippery slope. Wait til Italy justifying it by wanting the Roman empire back or Turkey justifying it by wanting the Ottoman empire back. Or Mongolia saying China belong to them because of Genghis Khan ruled it for 100 years.

That's the exact same justification used to take over Tibet because China used to ruled it in 1271-1368.

End of the day, don't be poor and you can define whatever borders you want.

[Buster]

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It essentially boils down to utilitarianism vs kantianism. We haven't solved that question yet as a species. China has proven with its growth under capitalism that their version of collectivism works at least economically.

There is no problem to solve.

China's "growth" hasn't been some breakthrough for collectivism (even if you could convince a reasonable person that collectivism wasn't inherently immoral). China's growth has been centrally planned totalitarianism just like all the other versions. And they all eventually collapse.