2022 Canada's Newest Climate Plan Mega Rant Thread

[davidI]

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People have to sleep. Electricity draw is extremely low at that time. Charge an electric vehicle to 90% overnight every night is definitely possible, along with a one hour topoff to 100% just before sunrise.

The grid can absolutely handle it. In fact, if you slightly oversize the battery by about 50 pounds (20 pounds of nickel) you can run a significant portion of your household by feeding unused juice from excess off the battery.

Someone modelled it already. Get 15% of the population on electric vehicles that can feed back into the household - and peak electricity smooths out significantly. It ends up being better for the grid.

Yea, this would be great if Canada had invested/legislated smart grids, variable demand pricing, and 240v/400v outlets in residential constructions 5+ years ago.

[Bytem3]

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People have to sleep. Electricity draw is extremely low at that time. Charge an electric vehicle to 90% overnight every night is definitely possible, along with a one hour topoff to 100% just before sunrise.

The grid can absolutely handle it. In fact, if you slightly oversize the battery by about 50 pounds (20 pounds of nickel) you can run a significant portion of your household by feeding unused juice from excess off the battery.

Someone modelled it already. Get 15% of the population on electric vehicles that can feed back into the household - and peak electricity smooths out significantly. It ends up being better for the grid.

What would really help push this idea is if they move to HDTV's and refridgerators that accept USB-C 100 watt inputs on timers or IoT aware. During the night, they accept normal grid power, during the day they can be programmed or simply single button on remote "use solar power" to suck on a DC 12 or 24 volt (battery or battery+solar) source if available. 90% of HDTV's in America convert from 120 volt AC to 19 volt DC anyhow.

Dare to live the dream, will definitely be more realistic when QD solar coated cells arrive.

Yeah… no

87% of electricity in Alberta is used commercially or industrially

So when they beg the 13% of residential users to conserve(use less air conditioning at night) it isn’t going to make any significant difference

Cars feeding back to the grid? I wouldn’t want to cycle the batteries in my car anymore than absolutely necessary

[zechs]

Can you build a house offgrid in the city?

Next house I build, I want to touch zero infrastructure. Clearly will pay off huge dividends in the next decade, and I think current tech is reasonably enough priced to make it worth it.

Electricity is pretty easy to have a backup generator for, and it can provide heat in a pinch.

Been doing a lot of reading about modern heat pumps, they are now good down to -23*C.

[suntan]

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Yea, this would be great if Canada had invested/legislated smart grids, variable demand pricing, and 240v/400v outlets in residential constructions 5+ years ago.

I'm not sure widespread (i.e. country-wide) smart grids are possible.

[mr2mike]

I don't know if the city would allow you to say drill a geothermal well within the city.
If you're a good enough geologist, you could potentially drill a small NG well too and provide enough for your home easily.
You'd have to hide surface facilities like they do in California.
Would be awesome though.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Let's check in with /r/alberta to see how they are handling the news.

Yup, this announced reduction is actually a target that will result in economic and societal collapse - GHG reductions need to be approximately double what was announced (domestically and internationally) in order for us to reach a level where Canada can have a good chance to survive as a nation.

As it is, we are facing collapse by 2050 or maybe 2060 (a process which has already started). Millions of Canadians will die by century’s end - including the majority of Alberta’s population.

And politicians are talking about how affordable making those reductions are? Give me a break.

Ah.

[schurchill39]

You know its back when even Rachel Notley slams the idea.

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Without massive changes in technology across every sector and huge changes in global energy demand, reaching the 2030 target — in just over seven years — is fantasy

[killramos]

I wouldn’t worry about it too much. We really suck at keeping promises lol

[vengie]

If Canada shut down completely and went back to the stone age, and didn't light fires for survival we would reduce global GHG by 1.6%.

If anyone thinks absolutely crippling our country is going to save the world then I certainly have a bridge I can sell you.

[davidI]

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I'm not sure widespread (i.e. country-wide) smart grids are possible.

Nah, they obviously need to be geographic but that doesn't mean the Feds have a large part to play given how much transmissions is between Canada and the US and Canadian Federal Regulatory hurdles.

(e.g. CRTC ensuring access to cellular networks: https://www.electricity.ca/news/cea-...al-smart-grid/)

If they can force daycare and dental policies on the provinces then Smart Grid mandates should be simple.

[suntan]

I'm talking from a technical perspective.

[davidI]

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Let's check in with /r/alberta to see how they are handling the news.

Yup, this announced reduction is actually a target that will result in economic and societal collapse - GHG reductions need to be approximately double what was announced (domestically and internationally) in order for us to reach a level where Canada can have a good chance to survive as a nation.

They had me in the first part of the sentence because that's exactly what I think the Liberals/NDP are doing to Canada!

But hey, I can't share that opinion since they ban any sort of competent fiscal opinions in that sub.

[mr2mike]

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I'm talking from a technical perspective.

Technical perspective and execution. Public sector's specialty.
Let me just hire a bunch of people to create a focus group.
Then pay them to tour the world and not find anything useful for Alberta's "specifics".

[davidI]

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I'm talking from a technical perspective.

Europe has really pushed for common adoption across the countries so that electricity and smart meters/technologies can be shared between countries and across the entire grid. They've been funding it since at least 2005 so needless to say they're a little ahead of Canada (which keeps promising that it will diversify its economies from fossil fuels to innovating green technologies LOL).

A little slow and seems to just be a school presentation but if you have 10 minutes watch this at 1.75-2x speed and you'll get a feel for how far behind Canada is.

[suntan]

Pesky things like line losses can't really be overcome unless room temp superconductors are a thing.

[davidI]

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Pesky things like line losses can't really be overcome unless room temp superconductors are a thing.

Europe's figured it out.

Sure, the population density is larger but that doesn't mean Canada couldn't make massive progress by simply integrating smart grids in its most populous areas.

There are 2 or 3 pretty obvious zones that could be converted into independent Smart Grids or even tied together with <500km HV lines. Too bad the Liberals have pissed away hundreds of billions on basically nothing!

I'm sure 5k+ CERB recipients could have been trained how to install Smart Meters and they could have begun installing them while "social distancing", particularly on apartments/homes with external meters. I've seen figures like 50% of Canadian homes have smart meters whereas Spain had completed installation in all homes by 2018.

[suntan]

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Europe's figured it out.

No, they haven't figured it out. Those damned laws of thermodynamics.

A power line from Toronto to Victoria would lose about 80% of the power going through it just from going through the copper.

[davidI]

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No, they haven't figured it out. Those damned laws of thermodynamics.

A power line from Toronto to Victoria would lose about 80% of the power going through it just from going through the copper.

Why would you need a line from Toronto to Victoria?

A Quebec/GTA/Ottawa grid, Quebec/Maritime Grid, and Lower BC Mainland Smart Grid would make a lot of sense, particularly given their Hydro and ability to connect into US infrastructure for sales.

Even if the Liberals did want to print hundreds of billions more to connect those grids here are a few HVDC transmission lines over 2000kms long in Brazil and numerous lines longer than 1000kms in Congo, India, China, etc. Losses can be as low as ~5%/2000kms for HVDC.

Europe has inter-connected population centers, including numerous HV lines <500kms long, even under water and through mountains.

Is Canada even working on similar?

[killramos]

We don’t believe in national infrastructure here.

Do you know how many at risk squirrels live in those thousands of km if tree cuts?

It’s absolutely impossible to build a major transcanads infrastructure project in Canada. The precedents have been clearly set that any nimby can delay a project for decades for any reason.

[suntan]

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Why would you need a line from Toronto to Victoria?

A Quebec/GTA/Ottawa grid, Quebec/Maritime Grid, and Lower BC Mainland Smart Grid would make a lot of sense, particularly given their Hydro and ability to connect into US infrastructure for sales.

Even if the Liberals did want to print hundreds of billions more to connect those grids here are a few HVDC transmission lines over 2000kms long in Brazil and numerous lines longer than 1000kms in Congo, India, China, etc. Losses can be as low as ~5%/2000kms for HVDC.

Europe has inter-connected population centers, including numerous HV lines <500kms long, even under water and through mountains.

Is Canada even working on similar?

Then it's not a grid. Certainly not a resilient grid.

Good luck with HVDC. Longest line is a few hundred KMs.

It's the same problem that computer networks faced back when hubs were all the rage. The guy that made switches work the way they do won a Nobel prize. Now imagine the same problem but about 100 orders of magnitude more difficult.

Also if you want electricity to be the primary source of energy, then countries like Canada have no choice but to import power from far away regions. And electricity will have to be a fungible commodity. So yeah, a really big grid will need to be made.