Electric Vehicle MEGA Thread.

[Darell_n]

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What's the used market like for EV's? If the new ones aren't selling, there must be a large inventory sitting at used car lots.

The few I’ve shopped for this summer were at 99.5% the price of new. That’s a hard pass.

[JustinL]

I'm still in the market for an EV, but there's just nothing out there that really gets me going. I love the Taycan, but the prices are just too high. The Styling of the hyundai/kias just doesn't do it for me; I'm glad they exist and are pushing new designs, they just aren't what I want. The next round of German cars on the PPE platform look pretty good, but we're still waiting for them to show up.

[pheoxs]

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I think you're pretty biased in that statement. Hyundai/Kia has a surplus inventory problem with their EVs as well. While I do believe that their tech is ahead of some other manufacturers, they still face the same challenges of shirking demand,

Toyota is definitely doing it right, fuck the EV and going hybrid which everyone loves. Akio Toyoda pretty mcuh saves Toyota from going the wrong way.

In Canada most of the Hyundai/Kia EVs are still quite hard to find, only some specific trims are on dealer lots and most of that is due to dealers pushing 5-10k markups so no one wants to buy it for those prices. The US has a larger inventory but that appears to be driven by their selective EV rebates. When Tesla gets the full 7.5k rebate and very few others do it imbalances the market. Next year though some Teslas lose half their tax rebate, and I think Hyundai's Georgia plant will be operational in 2025 so we'll see what happens over the next couple years.

Either way though:
Hyundai Motor Sees Record Profit In Q3, Keeps Its EV Plans On Track (insideevs.com)

Hyundai Motor, which includes the Hyundai, Kia, and Genesis car brands, posted its third-quarter financial results today, and it’s good news for the Korean automaker.

The car manufacturer posted a record Q3 operating profit of $2.8 billion (KRW 3.82 trillion), up a whopping 146 percent from last year’s third quarter, while net profits more than doubled to $2.4 billion (KRW 3.3 trillion). At the same time, the operating profit margin reached 9.3 percent, more than double the 4.1 percent recorded in the previous year.

Mind you, these results are for the company as a whole, including the internal combustion-engined side of things, but electric cars were credited by Hyundai as being one of the reasons behind its expansion, along with higher sales for SUVs and Genesis models. In total, the Korean car group sold almost 169,000 electrified vehicles, including hybrid and all-electric, which is a 33 percent increase from last year.

[Darkane]

I think the American govt has to double down if they want to force EVs on folks and make the inflation reduction act tax break even more than $7500.

Honestly, if that incentive dissolves - EVs in their current form won’t survive.

What I have seen lately are manufacturers pivoting hard back to hybrid, and long range hybrid PHEV.

The rav4 prime is one of the best on paper vehicles ever. Toyota is doubling down on that style of drivetrain, and with the upcoming Lexus TX will show how to pull off a proper PHEV and make big profits. That drivetrain comes with a reliable old 3.5 NA V6.

Mercedes also surprised me with their ability to pivot - good leadership for change agility. They have two new large range PHEVs, with big batteries in an suv body which will sell.

Porsche also saw the need and increased the cayenne battery size for an appreciable range.

When the first 1/2 ton comes to market with a 30KW battery, a trusted drivetrain and 10000bs towing, it’ll be the truck ford envisioned with the lightning.

[ExtraSlow]

I think the lightning is hitting its goals. I push back on the idea of a "stronger" electric truck. There will be so many tradeoffs that it won't please anyone.

[pheoxs]

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What I have seen lately are manufacturers pivoting hard back to hybrid, and long range hybrid PHEV.

I think that mostly comes from them lacking adequate supply chains. GM was planning this huge push into EVs but they still haven't got their Ultium battery packs in full production. They actually hand assemble each pack because they haven't been able to get their automation lines up and running, it's a year behind schedule. When you produce less and with a far higher labour cost it makes sense that you're at an economic disadvantage so they're shifting backwards to vehicles that utilize less battery packs which are the hybrids and the PHEVs. Ford also announced they were cutting the 3rd shift from their lightning also citing supply chain constraints.

So in the short term it makes sense for them to keep building hybrids and grow that as much as possible until their new facilities are fully in production. Ultimately though I think it's all driven by them stumbling and trying to play catchup now.

[Team_Mclaren]

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In Canada most of the Hyundai/Kia EVs are still quite hard to find, only some specific trims are on dealer lots and most of that is due to dealers pushing 5-10k markups so no one wants to buy it for those prices. The US has a larger inventory but that appears to be driven by their selective EV rebates. When Tesla gets the full 7.5k rebate and very few others do it imbalances the market. Next year though some Teslas lose half their tax rebate, and I think Hyundai's Georgia plant will be operational in 2025 so we'll see what happens over the next couple years.

Either way though:
Hyundai Motor Sees Record Profit In Q3, Keeps Its EV Plans On Track (insideevs.com)

You can find most KIa Hyundai EVs other than somew EV6/Ioniq5. They cant give the Kona/Niro EVs away.
I should have clarify that this is the NA market in discussion. EV sells very well in other parts of the world.

MB dealers are drowning in EQs, some new units with 35k off like a Ram lol.

[ExtraSlow]

Wish they made the Tuscon EV.

[pheoxs]

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You can find most KIa Hyundai EVs other than somew EV6/Ioniq5. They cant give the Kona/Niro EVs away.
I should have clarify that this is the NA market in discussion. EV sells very well in other parts of the world.

MB dealers are drowning in EQs, some new units with 35k off like a Ram lol.

Looking at the Kona Electric:

Precision Hyundai has 0
Country Hills has 2
Hyundai Gallery has 0
Crowfoot has 0
South Trail has 0

[RX_EVOLV]

We are 80% set on getting the VW ID Buzz. Just patiently waiting for preorders to open.

[Team_Mclaren]

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Looking at the Kona Electric:

Precision Hyundai has 0
Country Hills has 2
Hyundai Gallery has 0
Crowfoot has 0
South Trail has 0

For some reason you think every dealer would upload their inventory. Even then:

There are 10+ NIRO EV and even EV6s at eastside Kia.
Calgary Hyundai has 5+ ioniq 5/6 and Kona Electric in stock.
Country hills MB is showing 3 electric cars in their inventory, when you're there, they have 30+ EQ in the showroom.

[BavarianBeast]

Lotus EV from china the way to go

https://www.lotuscars.com/fr-CA/eletre

[ExtraSlow]

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For some reason you think every dealer would upload their inventory. Even then:

There are 10+ NIRO EV and even EV6s at eastside Kia.
Calgary Hyundai has 5+ ioniq 5/6 and Kona Electric in stock.
Country hills MB is showing 3 electric cars in their inventory, when you're there, they have 30+ EQ in the showroom.

microphoneunheld

[HiSpec]

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MB dealers are drowning in EQs, some new units with 35k off like a Ram lol.

Fact. My friend just picked up a basic EQE with $10K off.

[Xtrema]

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I think the American govt has to double down if they want to force EVs on folks and make the inflation reduction act tax break even more than $7500.

Next year the $7500 turns into cash for clunker instead of tax credit. Dealer/manufacturer will have to apply the discount and ask gov to pay them back. That should sweeten the pot it bit.

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Fact. My friend just picked up a basic EQE with $10K off.

They are tempting but I hate how the EQ line look. They were clearing pre Aug production cars with tons of incentives. Some even claim 1.4% lease with loyalty.

[redline]

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I think the lightning is hitting its goals. I push back on the idea of a "stronger" electric truck. There will be so many tradeoffs that it won't please anyone.

What goal is that, ford cut production dropped prices and dropped plans to expand the plant, gmc is delaying plans to expand production, they are not selling …

[killramos]

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wish they made the santa cruz ev.

ftfy

[ExtraSlow]

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ftfy

Gross.

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What goal is that, ford cut production dropped prices and dropped plans to expand the plant, gmc is delaying plans to expand production, they are not selling …

Ford has a lot of production problems on several models, I suspect they'll ramp back up now they have that union deal in place. My "it's meeting it's goals" comment are more about it's hitting the market niche they wanted, and that's a market niche that is real. I don't think a truck that weighs 2x as much to tow 1.3x as much for 1x as far, is going to be a worthwhile market niche.

[Darkane]

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Gross.

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Ford has a lot of production problems on several models, I suspect they'll ramp back up now they have that union deal in place. My "it's meeting it's goals" comment are more about it's hitting the market niche they wanted, and that's a market niche that is real. I don't think a truck that weighs 2x as much to tow 1.3x as much for 1x as far, is going to be a worthwhile market niche.

I was suggesting the first truck to get to a PHEV drivetrain will sell. And those sales will be what ford envisioned for the lightning.

30KW battery
2.7L PHEV
Tow ~9-10k

60kms electric range unloaded.

Sell it for 80-110 trim dependant.

[Tik-Tok]

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I was suggesting the first truck to get to a PHEV drivetrain will sell. And those sales will be what ford envisioned for the lightning.

30KW battery
2.7L PHEV
Tow ~9-10k

60kms electric range unloaded.

Sell it for 80-110 trim dependant.

And imagine all that battery power being usable for trailer camping. Put it into a Ranger/Canyonero and I'm sold.