Power of attorney?

[jabjab]

My father is in hospice care and unable to walk. He doesn't have much in terms of savings (a few thousand in the bank) and his pension that comes in.

Someone suggested going to a lawyer and getting power of attorney but that sounds expensive. He has given me his bank card and pin and asked me to withdraw his pension but he doesn't understand that I can't due to his card limits. I told him I can't go to the teller because I'm not him but he's old and does not understand.

Is there a better way to do this?

[JRSC00LUDE]

Can you accomplish this by etransfer, etc. through online banking?

If there are few assets to worry about control over I don't know if a P of A is worth it, they expire upon death and have no bearing on the matters of Estate after the fact.

Not a lawyer.

[skandalouz_08]

Unfortunately, it's either Power of Attorney or wait until he passes and then take care of it through his estate. Neither are great options. If he has a Will check to see if the lawyer also named a POA at the same time as most do? Best of luck and sorry about the circumstances.

[jabjab]

He has no will and doesn't own any assets except for the cash in the account unfortunately. He has told me to use the cash to pay burial costs and such.

[killramos]

At this point. Have him do a holographic will naming you sole heir and executor and have you and another witness acknowledge it.

Power of attorney likely has poor ROI at this point. Will take more work and time than he has left?

Not legal advise

[gwill]

E transfer is a good way to funnel the funds out. Might suck if there's a lot. Some banks allow larger transfers.. for ex TD to TD is easy to do large transfers.

I was power of attorney recently. The banks were a major fucking pain in the ass. At one point I was in the branch, with my dad, with my power of attorney papers in hand and they couldn't set me up.

All the crap had to go through Toronto. By the time things were sorted 6 weeks later he had passed away. That created a major pain afterwards.

Edit: I'd just prepay funeral expenses while he's alive to get the funds out if that's the plan. They'll have no issues helping you. On the flip side banks won't know he passes away until you tell them so the card will remain active for a while. You can use the deceased money on funeral expenses with no issues.

[ExtraSlow]

Banks are shitty. But have poor controls. Does he have cheques? If he's not set up online, that's an option.

[sabad66]

A PoA doesn’t need to be done by a lawyer. I have my dad’s, and we did it using the template on legalwills.ca and signed in front of two witnesses. Is he able to sign a document and can you bring two visitors in with you?

You might need an affidavit too but that’s just for the witnesses, not your dad

https://www.legalwills.ca/mypowerofattorney

Here’s the guidance on how to signing a PoA to make it legal:

Signing The Power of Attorney
In order to make the Power of Attorney a legal document, you should first print it and read it thoroughly. Make sure that it accurately reflects your wishes and that you understand everything that is contained in the document. Once you are happy that it reflects your wishes, you must sign your Power of Attorney in the presence of at least two witnesses, and the two witnesses must also sign the Power of Attorney, in the presence of the "Grantor" (yourself) and in the presence of each other. You and the witnesses should also initial each page, so that it is not possible to alter any pages after the Power of Attorney has been signed. A witness cannot be the person being granted the powers (the "Attorney") in the Power of Attorney, they cannot be the spouse of an "Attorney" (at the time of signing), they cannot be a minor, and they cannot be your own spouse or child. Finally, like the "Grantor" (you), they must be of sound mind. It is best to choose somebody who cannot gain from the granting of the powers.

For the signing procedure, gather the witnesses together in a room. You should make a formal statement that you have gathered them to witness the signing of your Power of Attorney. They do not need to read the Power of Attorney or know its contents. They are only required to witness your signature.

You should initial each page in turn, in the bottom left corner of each page, and then sign your name in full on the last page, in full view of the witnesses. Each witness then in turn initials each page, in the bottom left corner of each page, and signs the last page. Everybody must stay present until all of the signing is complete.

There should only be one original of the Power of Attorney for everyone to sign. Copies can be created by photocopy. It is therefore a good idea to sign the original in blue ink, so that it is easily distinguishable from the photocopies. Do not sign the photocopies, as this will create duplicate originals which can be difficult to administer.

Although these signing instructions give you a legal document according to the laws of your Province, some financial institutions have implemented their own internal requirements for a valid Power of Attorney. Notably, some banks require the document to be notarized before it can be accepted. This is done through a signed Affidavit. If you are preparing a Power of Attorney with specific financial institutions in mind, please check their policies for accepting a signed Power of Attorney.



Affidavit
The Power of Attorney document does not need to be notarized. However, if your "Attorney" needs to be involved in land dealings with the Provincial Land Titles Registry then they may ask for an Affidavit in addition to the Power of Attorney. In addition, some financial institutions require the Power of Attorney to be notarized - you should check with your local bank to see if this is a requirement. The Affidavit does have to be notarized and is included in the forms generated by the MyPowerOfAttorney™ service . The Affidavit is considered to be proof that your Power of Attorney was signed properly.

In order to do this, at least one of the witnesses must confirm under oath that the Power of Attorney was signed and witnessed correctly, including confirmation that they were personally present, that the person who executed the Power of Attorney is known to that witness, that the Power of Attorney was executed at the place and on the date specified, and that all witnesses and the grantor (you) were of the legal age of majority.

The Affidavit is not a requirement to make the Power of Attorney legal, but it may make things easier for your "Attorney". The Affidavit need not be completed at the same time as the Power of Attorney is signed and witnessed. It can be completed later when the Power of Attorney takes effect (e.g. when you become incapacitated), but in order to do this, your "Attorney" would need to locate your witnesses and have them sign the Affidavit and this could be impractical.

Therefore, if you choose to use an Affidavit, it is often a good idea to have everything signed at the same time. In this case, each of your witnesses must take the Affidavit along with the signed and witnessed original Power of Attorney to a Commissioner for Oaths or a Notary Public and complete the document in their presence. The witness will swear the Affidavit under oath or affirm the Affidavit before the Commissioner for Oaths or Notary Public and both will sign the Affidavit and attach it to the Power of Attorney document. This is a very standard procedure.

To print an Affidavit, click on "Download an Affidavit (PDF file)" from the main menu of the MyPowerOfAttorney™ service and save the PDF file on your local hard drive. If you have Adobe Reader installed on your system (free download available from here), you can then open this PDF file and print it.

[Gman.45]

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

E transfer is a good way to funnel the funds out. Might suck if there's a lot. Some banks allow larger transfers.. for ex TD to TD is easy to do large transfers.

I was power of attorney recently. The banks were a major fucking pain in the ass. At one point I was in the branch, with my dad, with my power of attorney papers in hand and they couldn't set me up.

All the crap had to go through Toronto. By the time things were sorted 6 weeks later he had passed away. That created a major pain afterwards.

Edit: I'd just prepay funeral expenses while he's alive to get the funds out if that's the plan. They'll have no issues helping you. On the flip side banks won't know he passes away until you tell them so the card will remain active for a while. You can use the deceased money on funeral expenses with no issues.

The part in bold is a bad choice IMO. When my mother passed away (I had PoA, and yes it was a giant, giant PITA to setup, similar experience to others, even with my mother at her bank, they still couldn't do it that day), I was specifically warned by my attorney and hers that touching her accounts/assets in any way, even though I had PoA and had my name on her accounts (credit cards) as a secondary user so I could pay them while she was alive, was illegal in the USA (she had assets there), and an offense in Canada. Especially the bank accounts. Despite me being the sole heir in her will, and having PoA, had I pulled $ from her accounts to pay her bills after she had died, it would have been illegal, at least so I was advised.

Now if you have your name as a joint account holder on bank accounts/etc at the time of death, those accounts can still be used by yourself legally, but it's as big a PITA as getting the PoA done, to add a new name as a joint account holder, at least at the CIBC I dealt with.


-CIBC still required me to have both myself and my mother present in the branch to set up PoA, so an online PoA didn't cut it with them, at least that was my experience.

[gwill]

You've got some weird advice. POA gives you full control over your family members financial affairs while their alive. You can do whatever you want, whenever you want hence why the POA papers are extremely important.

My Dads banks had no issues releasing funds for funeral expenses after he passed.

Cibc was the bank that refused to setup POA even with papers in hand and my dad in the branch with me at the time. Can't imagine how screwed some families could end up with the games they played.

[ThePenIsMightier]

I read a couple of these posts, but not the lengthy ones...

Get everything you can with that bank card, very systematically while you can. The goal should be to exhaust the estate before death. Everything after death is very complex and horrible.
The advice about pre-paying for the funeral/burial expenses is also very good and a quick way to exhaust the estate.

I have personally lost a deep 6-figures in dollars that were to be willed to us due to a greasy CCIM realtor scum relative vulture moving into the picture right before death. Plus about $2MM in Life Insurance that magically got changed beneficiary by a completely infirm person was also lost.
People need better education and planning about death because it's not like it's a "maybe". I'm horrified about what battles I'm going to have to face with two key people in the next decade who hold very substantial wealth that's earmarked for me but under very cloudy waters.

Humans are a virus.