2022 Winter tires

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

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Given your experience, what would be a few suggestions instead of the hakkas?

I have limited experience with the new studded Michelin but I liked them, Pirelli Ice Zero/2 I like for snow and ice but felt a bit soft for our Chinook days, non studded I personally like the Bridgestone WS90, and performance winters the Sottozero line is my favourite but I haven’t tested the newest PA5. My all time least favourite winter tire so far is the Michelin XI3.

[riander5]

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I have limited experience with the new studded Michelin but I liked them, Pirelli Ice Zero/2 I like for snow and ice but felt a bit soft for our Chinook days, non studded I personally like the Bridgestone WS90, and performance winters the Sottozero line is my favourite but I haven’t tested the newest PA5. My all time least favourite winter tire so far is the Michelin XI3.

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[rage2]

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Looking at the actual data, it echos exactly why I hate Hakkas. Average dry and wet road performance at best, not even the best tire under snow or ice braking. Near the bottom for noise too. The only thing the tire excels at is snow and ice handling and acceleration, but a 2mm stud China tire with bigger tread blocks will be faster on snow and ice anyway. I also find Hakkas are among the worst tires for feel and feedback.

Hakkas are great tires for very poor drivers or the average person, but they don’t stack up for someone who gets to test lots of different tires and situations and cares about how the tire interacts with the vehicle in my opinion.

I’m not buying Hakkas for their dry performance. And yea, you can feel it sucks if you’re dry cornering in them. Everything is spongy, numb feedback. You buy them for the ice performance on the days you need it. That’s why it’s on the minivan for us, nobody is setting records in the dry so it’s good enough, and on the really shitty couple of weeks in the year, it’s worth every penny. And even in average winter days, I appreciate it at every intersection that idiots have created shiny ice from spinning their tires.

Kinda unfair you’re just pointing out ice braking, when it out handles/lap time everything else in actual winter conditions. If anything, I’d thought you would appreciate that.

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I have limited experience with the new studded Michelin but I liked them, Pirelli Ice Zero/2 I like for snow and ice but felt a bit soft for our Chinook days, non studded I personally like the Bridgestone WS90, and performance winters the Sottozero line is my favourite but I haven’t tested the newest PA5. My all time least favourite winter tire so far is the Michelin XI3.

I’m a huge Michelin fan, and haven’t found a good winter tire comparable to the hakkas yet. Looking forward to trying the north 4 studded or whatever. Performance winters tho, the PA5s are amazing. Dry it’s almost as if I’m driving on AS4s performance all seasons. Snow is about the same as PA4s but ice performance really steps it up a notch, getting close to non studded real winter tire performance. Im on my 2nd set now. Lemme know if you wanna try em out.

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[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

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I’m not buying Hakkas for their dry performance. And yea, you can feel it sucks if you’re dry cornering in them. Everything is spongy, numb feedback. You buy them for the ice performance on the days you need it. That’s why it’s on the minivan for us, nobody is setting records in the dry so it’s good enough, and on the really shitty couple of weeks in the year, it’s worth every penny. And even in average winter days, I appreciate it at every intersection that idiots have created shiny ice from spinning their tires.

Kinda unfair you’re just pointing out ice braking, when it out handles/lap time everything else in actual winter conditions. If anything, I’d thought you would appreciate that.


I’m a huge Michelin fan, and haven’t found a good winter tire comparable to the hakkas yet. Looking forward to trying the north 4 studded or whatever. Performance winters tho, the PA5s are amazing. Dry it’s almost as if I’m driving on AS4s performance all seasons. Snow is about the same as PA4s but ice performance really steps it up a notch, getting close to non studded real winter tire performance. Im on my 2nd set now. Lemme know if you wanna try em out.

It’s like you completely ignored almost all of my post. I pointed out what the Hakka does “best” (based on one test and data) and what it doesn’t, and I even pointed out that if your goal is pure ice and snow performance a China tire with 2mm studs (very streetable) is better on snow and ice (I’ve tested this on Ghost Lake). You probably could have drawn from the entire post that I value how a tire feels to drive on (which is subjective person to person) over outright testing data and numbers.

[Rocket1k78]

Definitely had a tough time going studs or not this time around but i had to try them, im also in an f150 and performance in dry is the least of my worries so itll be worth any sacrifice for that added traction. We ski and do road trips in winter so im looking forward to this set up. The blizzaks were really good and the only time i was pretty scared was this 1 time heading to edmonton, just after red deer it got slick with black ice and once we hit edmonton is was white knuckle for me. Worst black ice ever ever encountered and car after car ended up in the ditches

[tirebob]

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It’s like you completely ignored almost all of my post. I pointed out what the Hakka does “best” (based on one test and data) and what it doesn’t, and I even pointed out that if your goal is pure ice and snow performance a China tire with 2mm studs (very streetable) is better on snow and ice (I’ve tested this on Ghost Lake). You probably could have drawn from the entire post that I value how a tire feels to drive on (which is subjective person to person) over outright testing data and numbers.

I have been staying out of this debate because it is always the same thing and nobody seems to talk about the fact that in any controlled environment it makes it easy to say that one thing is amazing and one thing is bad, but as you pointed out, subjectivity is everything.

The problem with these "tire tests" is that it is impossible to account for every single variable, and there are tons! Sure on that given day when the temperature is -5 and the vehicle being used is a blah blah blah, the results were defined. The thing is, different cars have different weights, different power bands, different drive systems etc... Take the temperature today at -5 degrees, but at -30 it will all be different as compounds are all affected differently by temperature... Put a different driver behind the wheel who has a completely different driving style... Heck even road surface differences such as asphalt versus concrete make a difference. Humidity affect ice slickness. The list goes on and on.

Then take into account things like rage pointed out. Sure it might be sticky in one way, but some guys hate the mushy feel in another way on bare roads. Then you might be somewhere where wet is more of an issue and that also changes.

In short, this is why nobody will ever agree on what is best, and if you buy the results of any test you are being sold 100%. The one truth I will say is I almost never see anyone who decides something will be the best when they buy it think any otherwise because once you drink the koolaid, nobody wants to think they are ever wrong haha!

Buy what you like and drive what you like. Just do it rationally and assess your specific likes and needs and choose products with design that is meant to meet those needs, but accept that any change or improvement in one area will also cause a change/effect in another. Equal and opposite reactions and all that...

[DonJuan]

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...My all time least favourite winter tire so far is the Michelin XI3.

Agree with you here. newer XI3's came on my G when I bought it used. I had them changed them out to some cheapie chinese winters and haven't looked back. XI3 in slush was scary AF.
I did have Hakkas on my Hilux Surf years ago and my experience with them was awesome. Performance driving and noise was obviously not a priority, just full out winter traction, and that's what the Hakkas provided. I switched to duratracs after a couple years and they didn't even come close. From that experience Hakkas are my go to for winter tires, but as you say they are pricey so I end up finding something a little more affordable. The family bus has ultra grips on it only because I got a deal on them, and I havn't had an issue. I've never run studded btw.

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Savage

[arcticcat522]

It boils down to this for me. Wife/family hauler gets studs for max safety. My vehicle gets non studded because race truck/d bag driver.

[ThePenIsMightier]

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I have limited experience with the new studded Michelin but I liked them, Pirelli Ice Zero/2 I like for snow and ice but felt a bit soft for our Chinook days, non studded I personally like the Bridgestone WS90, and performance winters the Sottozero line is my favourite but I haven’t tested the newest PA5. My all time least favourite winter tire so far is the Michelin XI3.

We are closely aligned on this.
I detest "performance" winters, but the Pirelli ones I had were tolerable. I'm die-hard Blizzak overall.

And yes - Nokian touched my penor while trying to get to my wallet for the most expensive tire that promises things that are the best of all worlds, which is simply false.
It's like Hawk telling me their racing brake pads will be fine for the street, not noisey and will respond while stone cold. No.

[riander5]

Just went for a drive today - SUV has some old, worn, (maybe 25% tread left) Michelin Cross Climates on it. Handled wet slushy roads fine, just wasn't great in pure 1.5 foot snow that had no previous drivers on it.

I might investigate Nokians 4 season tires and just settle for that.

[BavarianBeast]

How detrimental would 4000km be on a brand new set of winters in 15-20c heat? Already did the swap and looking at a trip south to Vegas/LA…

[prae]

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How detrimental would 4000km be on a brand new set of winters in 15-20c heat? Already did the swap and looking at a trip south to Vegas/LA…

I'd take the time to swap your tires out. If that's impractical, I'd say just send it.

[pheoxs]

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I'd take the time to swap your tires out. If that's impractical, I'd say just send it.

the time/cost of swapping back to all seasons is probably better value than burning a third of your winter tires life.

That being said I’d probably just stick on the winters as you have to drive through a few mountain passes to get to Vegas from here. Winters in the mountains is more important than any extra wear cruising the Vegas strip.

[gpomp]

"Most importantly, at the end of a hard session of high-speed lapping, the Wintersports didn't exhibit any measurable or visible wear at all."

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...-track-tested/

[BavarianBeast]

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the time/cost of swapping back to all seasons is probably better value than burning a third of your winter tires life.

That being said I’d probably just stick on the winters as you have to drive through a few mountain passes to get to Vegas from here. Winters in the mountains is more important than any extra wear cruising the Vegas strip.

Yeah, that’s a bit of the trouble - needing the winters to get back through a couple mountain passes with the route we’d like to take. The temps look pretty cool until you get into Vegas basically, hopefully only 1500-2000km of warm weather driving hopefully. Cheers guys

[msommers]

There's a surprising number of people who driving on Winters all year, for years on end.

[Rocket1k78]

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How detrimental would 4000km be on a brand new set of winters in 15-20c heat? Already did the swap and looking at a trip south to Vegas/LA…

For your typical truck owner it could be a bit detrimental with the excess wear but i got a feeling you're not the typical truck owner

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That being said I’d probably just stick on the winters as you have to drive through a few mountain passes to get to Vegas from here. Winters in the mountains is more important than any extra wear cruising the Vegas strip.

This. We trailered our sportbikes to vegas one year in january and it was snowy roads til about 2-3 hours from vegas. We were actually scared we couldnt ride in vegas lol

[tirebob]

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Yeah, that’s a bit of the trouble - needing the winters to get back through a couple mountain passes with the route we’d like to take. The temps look pretty cool until you get into Vegas basically, hopefully only 1500-2000km of warm weather driving hopefully. Cheers guys

If you drive reasonable and don't beat the shit out of it in the blazing heat you will be fine...

[spike98]

I put R5 SUV's on the wifes XC60 today. The snow in my area didn't stick around for it to be slick at all this morning. Will report back when the roads actually get shitty.

[colinxx235]

I'm going to find out first hand here soon once the snow hits/sticks but I went with some Michelin LA2 on the BMW after talking to Bob about options as my vehicle is a bit limited. Giving up some dry traction/speed vs the Pirelli Scorpions but I would much rather take the comfort on those bad days especially with Bow Trail/17th around Sarcee Trail area.

But mainly just want to re-iterate the common trend on the forums: awesome guy, quick responses and was very happy with his advice/shops work. Shop staff was friendly and great experience, did an excellent job in quick time the other week. Thanks again!