YYC Direct Flights Shakeup 2023 - AC Out, WJ In

[g-m]

And not even necessarily stopping direct service. Lufthansa still > wj

[roopi]

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Recall, the average podunk Canadian “traveller” doesn’t care about having to connect 3 times to get to Mexico, if it means they’ll save $14 on their round trip ticket. As evidenced above, some travellers even prefer connecting elsewhere since YYC airport is such a dump.

I'm not saying YYC is great but in comparison to all other airports in Canada it might be #2. YVR and YYC have to be the only two that are a better options than the rest of Canada.

[Gainsbarre]

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I'm not saying YYC is great but in comparison to all other airports in Canada it might be #2. YVR and YYC have to be the only two that are a better options than the rest of Canada.

In comparison to other Canadian airports, YYC is certainly one of the better ones. Once the international terminal was opened in the fall of 2016 I've never found YYC to be overcrowded, and there are lounge and dining options in each terminal, along with sufficient seating. The Elevation Lounge is one of the best airport lounges in Canada, and you can still order items via QR code to your table. The only Canadian airports I find to be consistently crowded are YYZ (and to a lesser extent) YUL, where seating is often an issue. The only major Canadian airport I find less crowded than YYC is YOW. YVR is large enough to the point that it never feels crowded. Most Canadian airports have satisfactory dining options, although some of the really small ones (e.g. Whitehorse) only has vending machines.

YYC is one of Canada's best large airports and a case can certainly be made for best one after YVR.

[KrisYYC]

The Frankfurt flights will be operated by Lufthansa subsidiary Eurowings using Airbus A330 aircraft. Business class will be a downgrade from AC's pods but economy class will be about the same if not a slight upgrade as Eurowings uses a 2-4-2 config on their 330's in economy which I prefer over 3-3-3.

It does suck to lose these flights but at the same time AC is adding some nice flights out of Vancouver like Dubai and Singapore, and it's pretty easy to connect through YVR from YYC.

With so many low cost carriers operating out of YYC yields are definitely taking a hit. With limited aircraft and pilots available it makes more sense to put those resources on much more profitable routes with less low cost competition. This is an advantage AC has over WS at this time.

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So what's the split of West and East here? Saskatchewan? Manitoba?

I'd say AC is pulling back from AB, SK, and MB. AC has fortified Vancouver quite strongly and is growing that hub nicely with new flights like Singapore, Dubai etc.

[jutes]

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Recall, the average podunk Canadian “traveller” doesn’t care about having to connect 3 times to get to Mexico, if it means they’ll save $14 on their round trip ticket. As evidenced above, some travellers even prefer connecting elsewhere since YYC airport is such a dump.

People really do this? I’ll pay extra to avoid connections and absolutely avoid YYZ. At all cost. YYC isn’t bad to connect, have no choice coming from Sask.

[Maxx Mazda]

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People really do this? I’ll pay extra to avoid connections and absolutely avoid YYZ. At all cost. YYC isn’t bad to connect, have no choice coming from Sask.

You’re more the exception than the norm. I’d wager that 70-80% of people just “sort by: price low to high” and pick whatever’s cheapest. Connections be damned.

[bjstare]

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You’re more the exception than the norm. I’d wager that 70-80% of people just “sort by: price low to high” and pick whatever’s cheapest. Connections be damned.

I don’t think I know a single person - not one - that would do this.

For those few beyonders that don’t fly private: chime in if you will go on a milk run to save $14.

[ThePenIsMightier]

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I don’t think I know a single person - not one - that would do this.

For those few beyonders that don’t fly private: chime in if you will go on a milk run to save $14.

I know someone who makes substantially more money than I do and zhe will take a milk run with a family of 5 to save dozens of maybe even hundreds of dollars.
It's a thing and I think Maxx has a very valid point.

[Team_Mclaren]

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AC is not stopping flights to those destinations, they’re just stopping direct flights there from Calgary. Routes like YVR/YYZ/YUL will be upgauged to connect people to these destinations through their hubs. (Google “airline hub and spoke model” for more.) More frequency is also a huge win for the business travellers who fly a lot. Now, instead of sending a half empty 787 to Frankfurt from Calgary once a day, they can fill every seat in that same aircraft and send it to Toronto and back 6-8 times in the same time period. Utilization will increase, and profits will as well.

Recall, the average podunk Canadian “traveller” doesn’t care about having to connect 3 times to get to Mexico, if it means they’ll save $14 on their round trip ticket. As evidenced above, some travellers even prefer connecting elsewhere since YYC airport is such a dump.

Hub and Spoke has been slowly dying in the last 10 years no? There is a reason why high capacity jets like the A380 and 747 are no longer popular within the industry. While The new A320 XLR is getting massive orders. "most" people still prefers direct flights i think?

And then there is YYC, with the new area that opened recently, i really don't find it all that bad. The lack of seats in the new terminal is definitely annoying, but overall it's a nice space to be in. Compares to especially many old airports in the states.

[benyl]

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Hub and Spoke has been slowly dying in the last 10 years no? There is a reason why high capacity jets like the A380 and 747 are no longer popular within the industry. While The new A320 XLR is getting massive orders. "most" people still prefers direct flights i think?

When there was an abundance of pilots, direct flights were gaining favor and the widebodies weren't profitable. Post covid, you have a lack of pilots and aircraft. Most airlines that had A380s and scrapped them are currently regretting it.

Also, airlines with higher ratio of J and W cabins to Y are raking it in as they are the first cabins to sell out at higher profit.

[ExtraSlow]

Running an airline seems awful. Heavily regulated by multiple jurisdictions, massive capital requirements, skilled worked who are mostly unionized AND who are hard to retain. Glad I don't have to do it and I can just complain.

[killramos]

This thread seems to be pointing to this being a win win for everyone.

People who can “tolerate” WestJet get way more direct international routes from Calgary and can spend more time either in bed or at their destination than in a shitty restaurant at Pearson.

People who like newer planes and better inflight movies or whatever makes AC better can connect through Vancouver or Toronto and fly Air Chrétien to their hearts content. They even get to spend way more time on their planes! Sounds fun!

I guess it sucks for people who will do anything to save $14, I guess they can fly lynx or flair?

And people who fly private can do whatever they want.

The world keeps spinning.

[rage2]

You save a fuck ton more on Lynx and Flair. We gave it a try on a weekend to Victoria. Flew out on Lynx, came back on Flair at 1/5 the cost of Westjet round trip. $500 vs $2500 for 5 people.

Lynx experience is better than WJ, great seats, flew on Dreamliner. Flair was on a smaller plane, seats were fucking tight, paid for upgrade for more legroom otherwise I would've been fucked.

Tried lynx again 2 weeks ago to Vegas for 2 (wife + kid), flight got cancelled because of "weather". The hurricane was rolling in but nothing actually happened until 2 days later but they still cancelled. Had to rebook on AC for $1600 for 2, plus another $200 for another night of hotel. Didn't break even on that one compared to the savings.

[sabad66]

I’m far from an expert with this stuff, but I think this sucks for people who travel to obscure destinations like Lebanon. Usually there are two decent AC routes from Calgary to Beirut, one thru London and another thru Frankfurt. There’s a third option with Lufthansa Eurowings too. So with the Frankfurt AC route cut, down to only 2 options overall if you want only one stop, which I imagine may increase costs due to lower supply.

WJ isn’t really an option because they don’t code share with Middle East Airlines afaik.

Extra shitty for me if this turns out to be true because we were hoping to go next summer. 4 tickets at 2k a pop was already not something I was looking forward to…if it jumps to 2500 or 3k/ticket then that may be enough to change our plans. I hope my theory is wrong.

[benyl]

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I’m far from an expert with this stuff, but I think this sucks for people who travel to obscure destinations like Lebanon. Usually there are two decent AC routes from Calgary to Beirut, one thru London and another thru Frankfurt. There’s a third option with Lufthansa Eurowings too. So with the Frankfurt AC route cut, down to only 2 options overall if you want only one stop, which I imagine may increase costs due to lower supply.

The issue you have is being in Calgary, not BEY being obscure. There is plenty of connectivity from Europe (LHR, BCN, CDG, FCO, AMS, FRA, MXP) to BEY. But most of the flight to BEY leave in mid morning and most flights from Calgary get to those airport late morning to early afternoon. Hub and spoke to blame as they need to load the widebodies with connections from the rest of Canada pushing the long haul later in the day.

From YYZ, you are fine as the flights get into Europe early morning. But that is another connection.

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WJ isn’t really an option because they don’t code share with Middle East Airlines afaik.

WS doesn't code on many other airlines, but they have interline agreements with 50+ airlines. AF flies into BEY and you can always get a travel agent to build you a ticket with WS over the pond connecting to an AF flight into BEY. You get the same protections on an interline ticket as you do on a codeshare ticket in case of disruptions.

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Extra shitty for me if this turns out to be true because we were hoping to go next summer. 4 tickets at 2k a pop was already not something I was looking forward to…if it jumps to 2500 or 3k/ticket then that may be enough to change our plans. I hope my theory is wrong.

[sabad66]

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The issue you have is being in Calgary, not BEY being obscure. There is plenty of connectivity from Europe (LHR, BCN, CDG, FCO, AMS, FRA, MXP) to BEY. But most of the flight to BEY leave in mid morning and most flights from Calgary get to those airport late morning to early afternoon. Hub and spoke to blame as they need to load the widebodies with connections from the rest of Canada pushing the long haul later in the day.

From YYZ, you are fine as the flights get into Europe early morning. But that is another connection.


WS doesn't code on many other airlines, but they have interline agreements with 50+ airlines. AF flies into BEY and you can always get a travel agent to build you a ticket with WS over the pond connecting to an AF flight into BEY. You get the same protections on an interline ticket as you do on a codeshare ticket in case of disruptions.

I see what you are saying, but what you highlighted (flights into BEY from Europe mostly leave mid morning) is exactly the root issue, no? So with one less flight into Europe from Calgary (the AC Frankfurt), wouldn’t it make the problem worse? Again specifically with the goal of having only one connection.

I didn’t know about this interline thing so that’s good to know. I tried looking for a flight to Beirut on the WJ app and it doesn’t even show up, so I guess travel agents are the only ones who can do this? Sucks it’s not self serve like proper code shares. Can you use companion vouchers when booking this way? I suppose the voucher would only apply the WJ leg and not the full flight

[bjstare]

Maxx Mazda vs Benyl commentary on airlines seems strikingly similar to Nurses vs Doctors commentary on medical issues.

[rage2]

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Maxx Mazda vs Benyl commentary on airlines seems strikingly similar to Nurses vs Doctors commentary on medical issues.

Which ones the bitch?

[ExtraSlow]

yes.

[bjstare]

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Which ones the bitch?

It's usually the nurse.