Another Vehicle Dilemma Thread - Family Hauler Edition

[npham]

Talk to Ryan, he'll give you an idea of what the market is like - [email protected]

[rage2]

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Whats the current situation with the new AWD Sienna? Impossible to find right now?

Sienna is currently sitting at 24-36 month wait time for non base AWD trims. I think even Ryan is having problems getting them. Base and FWD seems to be under 12 month wait. XSE + Tech AWD and Limited AWD are straight up unicorns.

Friend of mine JUST got his XSE non tech AWD not through Ryan. Ordered 23 months ago.

[riander5]

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Sienna is currently sitting at 24-36 month wait time for non base AWD trims. I think even Ryan is having problems getting them. Base and FWD seems to be under 12 month wait. XSE + Tech AWD and Limited AWD are straight up unicorns.

Friend of mine JUST got his XSE non tech AWD not through Ryan. Ordered 23 months ago.

Does Toyota not have the ability to ramp up? Is it not in their best interest to get this god damn wait list down?

[ExtraSlow]

You'd think the optimal would be a small, but not zero, waitlist. Must not have capacity. Lots of cars with waitlists now stretching past 12 months.

[rage2]

It’s a battery and motor capacity issue first and foremost. Which is why they’re prioritizing FWD as the AWD is simply an extra motor to the rear wheels. We don’t see it with Siennas as there’s no non hybrid version, but you see it in other lines where there are pure ICE versions such as RAV4. No wait for a gas one.

Then there’s Canada being shafted on allocations. US wait times are nowhere near as bad. If you want to see how bad it looks right now for Sienna buyers in Canada, you can read a ton of anecdotes here:

https://www.siennachat.com/threads/w....68781/page-89

Start backwards. Looks like the latest updates have some dealers promising 4-5 years now lol. It’s not just Sienna, every Toyota hybrid has the same issue here. There are some random happy stories of dealers offering up cancelled orders that shorten the wait time, so YMMV. Lots of canceled orders because people are leaving deposits at multiple dealers. Most of the non queue jumpers seem to be taking delivery this year after ordering for 2 years.

[riander5]

Yea, understanding Toyota is playing the long game but god damn... how much $$$ are they leaving on the table over the next few years.

[rage2]

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Yea, understanding Toyota is playing the long game but god damn... how much $$$ are they leaving on the table over the next few years.

None if they can’t produce them fast enough. Their long game is their future battery tech, which is supposedly around the corner. The new battery plant opens in 2 years. Hybrids are supposed to get the new batteries first because they don’t anticipate cost optimization till 2030.

[riander5]

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None if they can’t produce them fast enough. Their long game is their future battery tech, which is supposedly around the corner. The new battery plant opens in 2 years. Hybrids are supposed to get the new batteries first because they don’t anticipate cost optimization till 2030.

Yea thats my point.. the longer they push these out, the more time competitors have etc.

I have a pal who got a ravenous 4 prime, he sure likes it. Not sure i'd drop 70k - 80k on one but to each their own

[pheoxs]

Canada seems to be getting shafted across the board. If you go stateside there's dealers with 20 Ioniqs on the lot and will sell them for under MSRP. In Canada it's still a year waitlist for many trims or pay 10k+ markup for a cancelled order sitting on a lot.

I wonder if it's related to the IFA and the US' tax subsidies of EVs or why they are diverting inventory so much.

[rage2]

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Yea thats my point.. the longer they push these out, the more time competitors have etc.

I have a pal who got a ravenous 4 prime, he sure likes it. Not sure i'd drop 70k - 80k on one but to each their own

Toyota's focus is hybrids, while competitors are going straight to EV. Everyone (not Tesla or Chinese brands) are limited by battery. Toyota's justification is that they rather focus the battery production capacity to hybrids because they can make 4 hybrids vs 1 EV for the same amount of production capacity, while lowering the cost implication of the battery. Long term is it working? Who knows. Short term, it's clearly working because they're selling way more hybrids than competitors selling EVs (minus Tesla) and printing money again. I think Canada is just a unique situation that makes it look like they don't want to make any more of these things.

The only people that are pissed off at Toyota are the ones bitching about their EV strategy, but clearly there's a fuck ton of people that want hybrids and not vocal about it and smelling their own farts? haha

[pheoxs]

I think Toyota is doing the best strategy they can with their current situation. Making more hybrids when you don't have sufficient battery supply chain is the right call to shift more of their overall products to be partially electric.

But I do very much think they deserve blame for being in the situation they are in. They were incredibly early into the hybrid market, they really should've been the ones to lead or at least still be near the front yet they seemingly have fumbled hard in terms of ramping their supply chain. That's the real issue I do fault them with.

[rage2]

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I think Toyota is doing the best strategy they can with their current situation. Making more hybrids when you don't have sufficient battery supply chain is the right call to shift more of their overall products to be partially electric.

But I do very much think they deserve blame for being in the situation they are in. They were incredibly early into the hybrid market, they really should've been the ones to lead or at least still be near the front yet they seemingly have fumbled hard in terms of ramping their supply chain. That's the real issue I do fault them with.

I think Toyota knows exactly what it's doing (minus Canada). They did not want to jump into the EV game because it wasn't profitable. If you look at every other manufacturer they're losing money on their EV strategies. Ford's on track to losing $4.5b, Mercedes earnings down 7% purely due to EV pricing even though the ICE margins are blowing away pre-covid numbers. Those 2 just off the top of my head. Toyota is selling their hybrids at competitive prices vs ICE and making money hand over fist.

In the US, you can get any Toyota hybrid if you pay ADM. The only people waiting (and it's < 1 year) are people that deal with the small # of dealerships that sell at MSRP only.

I don't have an explanation of Canada, other than we're so small we don't even get thought about and just lopped in with some other market's #'s.

[killramos]

Mods please move to the “Toyotas are sold out” subforum

[Xtrema]

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Yea, understanding Toyota is playing the long game but god damn... how much $$$ are they leaving on the table over the next few years.

Who is going to steal Toyota's lunch tho. Odyssey and the Kia whatever ain't hybrid. And Pacifica ain't cheap or aplenty.

[ExtraSlow]

Where's that dude who asked about "buying cars today for money"?? Haven't heard from that dude for a while.

[brucebanner]

Picked it up this morning from shaks ppf guy(easy guy to deal with).

[ExtraSlow]

This guy fucks

[Rocket1k78]

This would be a fun family hauler