Tell The Feds campaign

[rage2]

Haven't seen this one posted yet. I keep seeing this pop up in the usual echo chambers about AB wasting money on this campaign, and that we're just against alternative energy etc. Reading the official site:

https://tellthefeds.ca

It's basically AB government letting others know that Net Zero electricity by 2035 with a nationally connected grid isn't feasible, and that we DO want to get there, but should be the original 2050 date (only electricity is moved up to 2035).

Even in the Canadian analysis here: https://www.canada.ca/en/environment...ion-paper.html

It points out the provinces that are basically getting screwed, yet they're not aware/or moving forward with it anyways?

There are significant regional differences in current electricity generation across Canada. The impacts of a CES will be largest in fossil fuel-dependent electricity generating regions including Alberta, Saskatchewan, New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, and Ontario. Nunavut, Yukon, and Northwest Territories will face unique challenges as remote, off-grid communities transition away from diesel (see Annex A). The Government of Canada will continue to work closely with provinces and territories as they address these complex challenges, and will support the development of interties to bring clean energy to where it is needed. Support for smart grids, interties, and new ways of managing power (such as distributed generation and energy storage) will be helpful in the context of these challenges.

Basically, Canada's plan is to roll it forward, and let the provinces figure it out, so to speak? Seeing if I'm missing something here, and why people are upset at wanting to delay this till 2050 aside from everything UCP is bad.

[pheoxs]

I think the territories should be exempt or at least given an extra decade or so solely because it's just not feasible to build up there the same infrastructure elsewhere. Given their small population does their portion really matter.

For AB I think it mostly comes down to another fight the UCP wants to pick for the sake of protecting our O&G industry. Alberta has an inherent conflict of interest when it comes to electricity generation because we collect a lot of revenues from natural gas and the royalties are a sliding scale, we get a significantly larger portion as prices rise. If/When Alberta shifts all it's electricity generation off natural gas, then the industry would see a significant drop in local demand and cause some economic slowdown.

I do expect if Canada wants to push this that federally they need to provide a plan and support the transition. If we are to shift to nuclear SMR then we need it to be a country wide initiative to actually make it happen. Canada hasn't started a new nuclear plant in ~30 years so expecting AB to magically build a dozen in the next decade is lunacy. Only way it happens is if the collective agreement between provinces to invest in SMRs actually progresses, and the federal gov't carves out exemptions to their endless requirements for consultations and impact assessments.

[JRSC00LUDE]

Ironically, the people who clamor on about wanting this change and other environmental shit (like single use plastics) to happen so unreasonably/unrealistically quickly are the same people who then whine incessantly about how they can't afford rent/fuel/groceries/utilities. This country is virtue-signaling itself to the grave and too stupid to understand it. It's going to be awesome when the whole thing crashes/burns, the riots will be legendary!

God forbid proper planning to carefully phase in effective change be considered instead of just ramming policy, that's essentially written on a proverbial napkin, down everyone's throats and hoping for the best.

[Xtrema]

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Ironically, the people who clamor on about wanting this change and other environmental shit (like single use plastics) to happen so unreasonably/unrealistically quickly are the same people who then whine incessantly about how they can't afford rent/fuel/groceries/utilities. This country is virtue-signaling itself to the grave and too stupid to understand it. It's going to be awesome when the whole thing crashes/burns, the riots will be legendary!

God forbid proper planning to carefully phase in effective change be considered instead of just ramming policy, that's essentially written on a proverbial napkin, down everyone's throats and hoping for the best.

https://forums.beyond.ca/threads/417...cy-MEGA-THREAD

[max_boost]

tell the feds to fk off, ya

[M.alex]

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I think the territories should be exempt or at least given an extra decade or so solely because it's just not feasible to build up there the same infrastructure elsewhere. Given their small population does their portion really matter.

For AB I think it mostly comes down to another fight the UCP wants to pick for the sake of protecting our O&G industry. Alberta has an inherent conflict of interest when it comes to electricity generation because we collect a lot of revenues from natural gas and the royalties are a sliding scale, we get a significantly larger portion as prices rise. If/When Alberta shifts all it's electricity generation off natural gas, then the industry would see a significant drop in local demand and cause some economic slowdown.

I do expect if Canada wants to push this that federally they need to provide a plan and support the transition. If we are to shift to nuclear SMR then we need it to be a country wide initiative to actually make it happen. Canada hasn't started a new nuclear plant in ~30 years so expecting AB to magically build a dozen in the next decade is lunacy. Only way it happens is if the collective agreement between provinces to invest in SMRs actually progresses, and the federal gov't carves out exemptions to their endless requirements for consultations and impact assessments.

The o&g industry has nothing to do with it.

The CER makes it impossible to use carbon capture (achieve theoretical optimal capture rate, that nobody today can remotely come close to, or lose billions of capital spend), hydrogen (blue/gray bad, only $100/GJ green acceptable) or cogen (net exports bad; which is virtually every cogen). But don't worry, they'll still let unabated baseload plants run, except instead of the 8,300+ hours they run today, they can run at 450 hours. And then magic batteries that last 2-4 hours will fill int he remaining 8,000 hours.

Feds need to fuck off and we need to separate.

[rage2]

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I think the territories should be exempt or at least given an extra decade or so solely because it's just not feasible to build up there the same infrastructure elsewhere. Given their small population does their portion really matter.

For AB I think it mostly comes down to another fight the UCP wants to pick for the sake of protecting our O&G industry. Alberta has an inherent conflict of interest when it comes to electricity generation because we collect a lot of revenues from natural gas and the royalties are a sliding scale, we get a significantly larger portion as prices rise. If/When Alberta shifts all it's electricity generation off natural gas, then the industry would see a significant drop in local demand and cause some economic slowdown.

I do expect if Canada wants to push this that federally they need to provide a plan and support the transition. If we are to shift to nuclear SMR then we need it to be a country wide initiative to actually make it happen. Canada hasn't started a new nuclear plant in ~30 years so expecting AB to magically build a dozen in the next decade is lunacy. Only way it happens is if the collective agreement between provinces to invest in SMRs actually progresses, and the federal gov't carves out exemptions to their endless requirements for consultations and impact assessments.

So there is a "plan", more of a guideline. Canada wants the entire grid connected nationally, and for the provinces that don't have net zero generation or can't make it by the deadline, we're to import our power from the other provinces that have net zero excess electric capacity. There's some funding to help connect the grid nationally, but seemingly small numbers (for now). The guidelines also have us aim for something like 2x the power production by then as well. There's really no guidelines on how much more other provinces needs to build to help others.

I think the UCP is really messaging this poorly, if you actually look at Canada's guidelines, you see why it would spike our costs (having to buy from neighbors with no guidelines on pricing), and potential blackouts if they refuse to sell at a price under our price caps. I *think* that's what they're trying to get at once I've started reading through Canada's plan.

I don't know enough about why Hydro doesn't work here so I can't comment. Wind and Solar is definitely an understood challenge here in the winter months.

[suntan]

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The o&g industry has nothing to do with it.

The CER makes it impossible to use carbon capture (achieve theoretical optimal capture rate, that nobody today can remotely come close to, or lose billions of capital spend), hydrogen (blue/gray bad, only $100/GJ green acceptable) or cogen (net exports bad; which is virtually every cogen). But don't worry, they'll still let unabated baseload plants run, except instead of the 8,300+ hours they run today, they can run at 450 hours. And then magic batteries that last 2-4 hours will fill int he remaining 8,000 hours.

Feds need to fuck off and we need to separate.

CC is regarded by gumball and therefore Trudeau to be a scam.

Hydrogen is now considered a greenhouse gas. Good jorb y'all.

[Thaco]

Sounds like the UCP trying to bail out big corporations again. If they'd have innovated instead of stuffing their pockets when the money was flowing, we'd already be there.

[rage2]

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Sounds like the UCP trying to bail out big corporations again. If they'd have innovated instead of stuffing their pockets when the money was flowing, we'd already be there.

No doubt. We all know all the problems of the world can be easily solved by simply throwing money at it.

[ExtraSlow]

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I don't know enough about why Hydro doesn't work here so I can't comment. Wind and Solar is definitely an understood challenge here in the winter months.

There are at least a dozen hydroelectric generation stations in Alberta. Several of them have been operated as flood control in recent years insteadof prioritizing clean electricity.

[M.alex]

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So there is a "plan", more of a guideline. Canada wants the entire grid connected nationally, and for the provinces that don't have net zero generation or can't make it by the deadline, we're to import our power from the other provinces that have net zero excess electric capacity. There's some funding to help connect the grid nationally, but seemingly small numbers (for now). The guidelines also have us aim for something like 2x the power production by then as well. There's really no guidelines on how much more other provinces needs to build to help others.

I think the UCP is really messaging this poorly, if you actually look at Canada's guidelines, you see why it would spike our costs (having to buy from neighbors with no guidelines on pricing), and potential blackouts if they refuse to sell at a price under our price caps. I *think* that's what they're trying to get at once I've started reading through Canada's plan.

I don't know enough about why Hydro doesn't work here so I can't comment. Wind and Solar is definitely an understood challenge here in the winter months.

You can't have a national power grid - some jurisdictions are fully regulated, some quasi-regulated, and some completely unregulated - it would be a total clusterfuck. We get imports from BC, Montana and Saskatchewan when it makes economic sense for them....we could have rolling blackouts and get nothing from them if it's more economic for them to keep the power for themselves. And domestic transmission is expensive as fuck to build ... an interconnected gongshow would be clusterfuck*100 for costs.

Of our ~20,000 MW of supply, 800 MW is hydro. Most of that hydro was built 50-100 years ago in a fully regulated environment. It's not economic to build hydro in Alberta because it would be in the middle of nowhere. There's no question BC's Site-C and Newfoundland's Muskrat Falls are total clusterfucks of projects - the respective government's have both said so and that hte projects shouldn't have gone forward but did because budgets blew up when it was too late to stop them. In jurisdictions located right next to water costs are coming in at $15,000/kW. In Alberta it would be closer to $50,000/kW. For perspective Cascade (most recent gas plant built) cost $1,800/kW.

So, $1,800/kW (gas) vs $50,000/kW (hydro) ... I can't imagine why hydro isn't built in Alberta!

edit: for perspective, wind and solar are around $1,700-$1,900/kW to build. But gas runs 24/7/365 (ish) whereas wind runs 40% of the time (on average) and solar runs 20% of the time (on average). Hydro is about 30-60% run time depending on if dam or run-of-river because it's energy constrained (and also has to deal with water management rules)

[suntan]

Smoothing something balance themselves.

[littledan]

lol @ turdo cutting carbon tax on home heating oil. how about here in alberta with natural gas! totally not a maritimes vote buying exercise at all.

[killramos]

Polievre has a pretty funny video of o Regan running his mouth on both sides of this

[Thaco]

watching these UCP ads during the football game are hilarious, suggesting they're gonna have blackouts and freeze you out of your home and cause a ton of damage from frozen pipes... they keep getting progressively more ridicilous.... hope taxpayer money isnt paying for this trash.

[JRSC00LUDE]

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watching these UCP ads during the football game are hilarious, suggesting they're gonna have blackouts and freeze you out of your home and cause a ton of damage from frozen pipes... they keep getting progressively more ridicilous.... hope taxpayer money isnt paying for this trash.

Show us on the doll where the bad conservative touched you when you were a child.

It was entertaining watching your slide into lunacy during covid but frankly it's starting to get alarming. You should see a doctor.

[Thaco]

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Show us on the doll where the bad conservative touched you when you were a child.

It was entertaining watching your slide into lunacy during covid but frankly it's starting to get alarming. You should see a doctor.

you dropped this.

[Darkane]

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you dropped this.

Thaco - if the Clean Energy Regulations (which are still currently in draft) go through, most thermal power plants will shutdown in just over 11 years.

IF we don’t have MASSIVE battery storage, or we do a wide spread Carbon Capture (which is uneconomical for midsize and small thermal plants - most gas powered combined and cogeneration plants) then we won’t have the capacity throughout most of the day.

I agree it’s a little fear mongering - sure - but as the new CER draft is written its not a fallacy.

It’s just a matter of making this information consumable by a normal citizen, and not people in the industry/know.

How do we do this?

I will repeat, the ads are not fallacy AS OF TODAY. The federal government is taking consultation from industry right now for the CER, but they’re being very stubborn.

[davidI]

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No doubt. We all know all the problems of the world can be easily solved by simply throwing money at it.

What if debt is your problem?