Chasing Front End Vibration - Honda Odyssey

[haggis88]

First noticed a small shake around 90-100km/h, assumed tire balance

Had tires changed to winter at the same time I had the van in for the timing belt change, shake still there but mechanic noticed the engine mounts were worn out.

Drove it with the minor but constant shake at all speeds, worsening when VCM was active at highway speeds, whilst waiting on parts shipping and me not being away at work

Replaced all engine mounts, including active mounts (for the VCM system i assume)

Constant shake gone at low speed but now a worse shake has appeared between 90-120km/h, mostly on acceleration but is definitely more noticeable when the car is warm as opposed to when first driven. No CEL present.

Had a look at the visible drivetrain components, nothing seems to be hanging off (CV axles/boots intact) or loose. Brake rotors were new in the spring, tires are defo balanced

What would be next in ones process of elimination?

[SJW]

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First noticed a small shake around 90-100km/h, assumed tire balance

Had tires changed to winter at the same time I had the van in for the timing belt change, shake still there but mechanic noticed the engine mounts were worn out.

Drove it with the minor but constant shake at all speeds, worsening when VCM was active at highway speeds, whilst waiting on parts shipping and me not being away at work

Replaced all engine mounts, including active mounts (for the VCM system i assume)

Constant shake gone at low speed but now a worse shake has appeared between 90-120km/h, mostly on acceleration but is definitely more noticeable when the car is warm as opposed to when first driven. No CEL present.

Had a look at the visible drivetrain components, nothing seems to be hanging off (CV axles/boots intact) or loose. Brake rotors were new in the spring, tires are defo balanced

What would be next in ones process of elimination?

Ball joints?

[firebane]

Axles or wheel hubs.

Axles are the easiest but you would need a dial indicator to check for run out on the hubs.

[ShermanEF9]

The VCM system Honda used has been known to cause all sorts of fun issues. If it's not present when the engine is cold, but gets worse when warm. I'd be looking at things like timing, misfire counters, etc. hopefully the VCM isn't tearing itself apart.

[haggis88]

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Ball joints?

They look and feel tight, of course that's me underneath on a creeper and the car under load on ramps

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Axles or wheel hubs.

Axles are the easiest but you would need a dial indicator to check for run out on the hubs.

Would the axles be fubar without the CV boots being bust open? Any time I've had CV issues on Hondas before, its been very obvious

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The VCM system Honda used has been known to cause all sorts of fun issues. If it's not present when the engine is cold, but gets worse when warm. I'd be looking at things like timing, misfire counters, etc. hopefully the VCM isn't tearing itself apart.

It's present when cold, but worse when warm

Would my OBD tool tell me anything without a CEL? It does have a few more functions than just basic code reading as I can get live data from O2 sensors, knock sensors, EGT sensors and such

[SJW]

How old are the ball joints?

[firebane]

Axles can be fubarred without the boots ripped open. Most Honda axles have a rubber damper on them which help with vibrations. If your axles don't have these or they are old it could be causing vibrations.

[haggis88]

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How old are the ball joints?

unknown, no clunking present on bumps/turns though

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Axles can be fubarred without the boots ripped open. Most Honda axles have a rubber damper on them which help with vibrations. If your axles don't have these or they are old it could be causing vibrations.

Ah yes, I forgot about those little dampers...didn't even look to see if they were still there!

[SJW]

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Ah yes, I forgot about those little dampers...didn't even look to see if they were still there!

https://youtu.be/4j9PadNdG5E?t=11

[Flexray]

Wheels, brakes, cv axles will make a low frequency vibration (what a out of balance wheel feels like). Drive shafts, diffs, transmissions, transfer cases will usually give a high frequency vibration, like twice the frequency as a wheel speed vibration.

The vibration on acceleration is a big indicator. Worn out inboard cv joints will vibrate on acceleration. Seeing that you replaced engine mounts and the vibration changed, this is also a big indicator. There is a specific sequence to torqueing the engine mounts and or sub frame. If this is not followed the engine and transmission will not sit straight in its mounts putting the inboard cv joints at the incorrect angle and they will vibrate. I would start by loosing all of the engine/transmission mounts and brackets then follow the torqueing procedure for installing the powertain into the vehicle. This will neutralize the powertain and makes sure it is sitting in the vehicle straight.

If it is still vibrating, I would throw a set of cv axles at it. I have actually never found a way to test cv joints outside of knowing what bad one's feel and sound like. Don't buy shitty axles, the oe ones are expensive for a reason. I have had new out of the box low quality axles vibrate worse than the ones I took out of the vehicle.

[mr2mike]

Replace the whole lower arm as a kit if you're doing ball joints. A bit more $ but gets all the bushings on the arm done at the same time.

[haggis88]

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inboard cv joints at the incorrect angle and they will vibrate.

Ding ding ding!

Only one one side though...possibly due to being run for so long with worn engine mounts they've had a chance to wear into place, then the new mounts have lifted and tightened the motor enough to cause the vibration to be noticeable

There's a lot of play in the inner CV joint as well as running out of round when turning, so it's definitely fucked anyway

Just going to replace both, as I'm fairly confident as soon as one is done, the other one won't be far behind