JAL collision with coast guard at Haneda

[lilmira]

Luckily that all passengers got out of the JAL, unfortunately 5 from the coast guard plane didn't.
JAL got clearance to land, coast guard was told to hold.

[16hypen3sp]

First A350 hull loss. Amazing nobody on the commercial jet died.

[16hypen3sp]

Here is some footage from inside the A350.

[ExtraSlow]

For those who like text:
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2024/...haneda-airport

Japan Airlines plane bursts into flames on Tokyo runway after collision
All passengers were evacuated but five of six crew on another plane, carrying aid to earthquake-hit west coast, have died.
Published On 2 Jan 2024

Hundreds have been evacuated from a Japan Airlines plane after it burst into flames at Tokyo International Airport, also known as Haneda.

The plane was involved in a collision with another aircraft after landing on Tuesday. All 379 passengers on board the Japan Airlines (JAL) plane were safely evacuated, Japanese transport minister Tetsuo Saito told reporters.

Japan’s Coast Guard also confirmed that the collision involved one of its planes. Five of the six crew members from the smaller plane – bound for central Japan after Monday’s huge earthquake – died, Saito said.

[Tik-Tok]

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First A350 hull loss.

Nah, that'll buff out. Pressurized composites is easy to fix

[max_boost]

Omg

[suntan]

Asian drivers amirite?

[AndyL]

Is it just mmore edia coverage or does it seem like there's a lot of runway incursion issues the past few years?

[Xtrema]

Just sad that Coast Guard was rushing supplies to earthquake regions.

But that doesn't mean you can ignore traffic controller and bad for the pilot that he survived and his crew didn't.

[Tik-Tok]

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But that doesn't mean you can ignore traffic controller and bad for the pilot that he survived and his crew didn't.

Could have been bad traffic control instructions.

[killramos]

It’s actually mind boggling that ATC is basically still a manual, verbal, process in 2024

[flipstah]

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It’s actually mind boggling that ATC is basically still a manual, verbal, process in 2024

Enjoy

[bjstare]

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It’s actually mind boggling that ATC is basically still a manual, verbal, process in 2024

Not really. We can’t even figure out how to get cars to drive around safely in two dimensions.

[Gman.45]

I'm a former IFR controller, I worked at Winnipeg ACC (it wasn't called that when I was there circa 1994) for a couple of years after doing my training at Transport Canada Training Institute.

There still needs to be humans in the loop, because if system fail - and they do more frequently than you think - it all reverts to manual control. Manual control is done by fixed ground markers like VORs and NDBs (non directional beacons), radio comm checks with the aircraft, and a large board of flight strips at the control center. Each aircraft has a set of flight strips that reside under each checkpoint across their path of flight. As they cross these markers instrumentation on their a/c lets them know, along with the transponders in the aircraft reporting data, and they check in with ATC to inform them of their position, altitude, airspeed,etc. Then using the board, a controller can still maintain seperation between aircraft manually using radio comms, time, speed, position, etc. When things are working along tickity-boo, much of this is automated now, but you still have to manually, with a pen, check off the flight strip under each marker for each a/c you are controlling. Yes, I was 18 years old and doing this with thousands of lives in my hands. Feel safe when you fly now? Ha ha. Honestly, I didn't get my full license until I was 19. Feel any better? Didn't think so.

There are YT videos by the dozens demonstrating all of this if anyone cares. The "RAMP" radar control system was the shiny new toy coming online when I was leaving the job and moving on to things that go bang and how to employ them. RAMP is now already replaced IRRC. ADS-B wasn't something we had back when I was in that game either. Nor GPS yet on a wide scale. Fun times.

Note the accent of the Japanese controller. I don't know how they get away with that shit, you can barely understand them, and in my day there was a strict test that you had to pass to ensure you were understandable in English, which is the "chosen" language for Western/Allied nations air traffic control. I could BARELY understand that controller, which can lead to obvious issues. Unsure if his lack of verbal skills played any part in the error or if it was an unrelated fuck up, but hearing that...it spikes the tingly spine sensors for me, as it's cringe worthy at best, extremely worrisome at worst IMO.

[max_boost]

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I'm a former IFR controller, I worked at Winnipeg ACC (it wasn't called that when I was there circa 1994) for a couple of years after doing my training at Transport Canada Training Institute.

There still needs to be humans in the loop, because if system fail - and they do more frequently than you think - it all reverts to manual control. Manual control is done by fixed ground markers like VORs and NDBs (non directional beacons), radio comm checks with the aircraft, and a large board of flight strips at the control center. Each aircraft has a set of flight strips that reside under each checkpoint across their path of flight. As they cross these markers instrumentation on their a/c lets them know, along with the transponders in the aircraft reporting data, and they check in with ATC to inform them of their position, altitude, airspeed,etc. Then using the board, a controller can still maintain seperation between aircraft manually using radio comms, time, speed, position, etc. When things are working along tickity-boo, much of this is automated now, but you still have to manually, with a pen, check off the flight strip under each marker for each a/c you are controlling. Yes, I was 18 years old and doing this with thousands of lives in my hands. Feel safe when you fly now? Ha ha. Honestly, I didn't get my full license until I was 19. Feel any better? Didn't think so.

There are YT videos by the dozens demonstrating all of this if anyone cares. The "RAMP" radar control system was the shiny new toy coming online when I was leaving the job and moving on to things that go bang and how to employ them. RAMP is now already replaced IRRC. ADS-B wasn't something we had back when I was in that game either. Nor GPS yet on a wide scale. Fun times.

Note the accent of the Japanese controller. I don't know how they get away with that shit, you can barely understand them, and in my day there was a strict test that you had to pass to ensure you were understandable in English, which is the "chosen" language for Western/Allied nations air traffic control. I could BARELY understand that controller, which can lead to obvious issues. Unsure if his lack of verbal skills played any part in the error or if it was an unrelated fuck up, but hearing that...it spikes the tingly spine sensors for me, as it's cringe worthy at best, extremely worrisome at worst IMO.

cwazy cupcakes
thx for sharing

[Xtrema]

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Note the accent of the Japanese controller. I don't know how they get away with that shit, you can barely understand them, and in my day there was a strict test that you had to pass to ensure you were understandable in English, which is the "chosen" language for Western/Allied nations air traffic control. I could BARELY understand that controller, which can lead to obvious issues. Unsure if his lack of verbal skills played any part in the error or if it was an unrelated fuck up, but hearing that...it spikes the tingly spine sensors for me, as it's cringe worthy at best, extremely worrisome at worst IMO.

I'm sure pilots which frequent Asian airports may be more used to that accent.

[Gman.45]

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I'm sure pilots which frequent Asian airports may be more used to that accent.

I've seen a 15 min video of that incident filmed from the cockpit of the P8 Poseidon ASW/ISR jet that the US Navy used for that sovereignty patrol near the Chinese 9 dash line island chain. Pretty funny stuff. Got even funnier when the female pilot took over comms and started broadcasting warnings - really pissed the Chinese off I think for some reason. The "space invaders" sound is communications jamming signals the Chinese kept using vs the US Navy aircraft.

But I get your drift.

[Maxx Mazda]

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It’s actually mind boggling that ATC is basically still a manual, verbal, process in 2024

Trying to automate ATC would cause chaos in the skies.

This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

I'm a former IFR controller, I worked at Winnipeg ACC (it wasn't called that when I was there circa 1994) for a couple of years after doing my training at Transport Canada Training Institute.

There still needs to be humans in the loop, because if system fail - and they do more frequently than you think - it all reverts to manual control. Manual control is done by fixed ground markers like VORs and NDBs (non directional beacons), radio comm checks with the aircraft, and a large board of flight strips at the control center. Each aircraft has a set of flight strips that reside under each checkpoint across their path of flight. As they cross these markers instrumentation on their a/c lets them know, along with the transponders in the aircraft reporting data, and they check in with ATC to inform them of their position, altitude, airspeed,etc. Then using the board, a controller can still maintain seperation between aircraft manually using radio comms, time, speed, position, etc. When things are working along tickity-boo, much of this is automated now, but you still have to manually, with a pen, check off the flight strip under each marker for each a/c you are controlling. Yes, I was 18 years old and doing this with thousands of lives in my hands. Feel safe when you fly now? Ha ha. Honestly, I didn't get my full license until I was 19. Feel any better? Didn't think so.

There are YT videos by the dozens demonstrating all of this if anyone cares. The "RAMP" radar control system was the shiny new toy coming online when I was leaving the job and moving on to things that go bang and how to employ them. RAMP is now already replaced IRRC. ADS-B wasn't something we had back when I was in that game either. Nor GPS yet on a wide scale. Fun times.

Note the accent of the Japanese controller. I don't know how they get away with that shit, you can barely understand them, and in my day there was a strict test that you had to pass to ensure you were understandable in English, which is the "chosen" language for Western/Allied nations air traffic control. I could BARELY understand that controller, which can lead to obvious issues. Unsure if his lack of verbal skills played any part in the error or if it was an unrelated fuck up, but hearing that...it spikes the tingly spine sensors for me, as it's cringe worthy at best, extremely worrisome at worst IMO.

Absolutely incredible that there weren't more fatalities. It would have been damn near impossible for the JAL crew to see that DHC8 on the runway, especially if their A350's are HUD equipped (pretty sure those are standard equipment on the A350?) What's with the controller not using standard verbiage with regards to the hold short instruction? That will no doubt be a huge causal factor in this.

One of the reasons the evacuation went so smoothly, is because this was a plane full of Japs. Had it been a bunch of entitled, fat ass North Americans, you can guarantee people would have been way too busy trying to retrieve their bags or live stream the evacuation for their Tik Tok, to evacuate safely.

[Team_Mclaren]

This guy has a pretty good explanation and insight. Also comparison to Fatass North Americans on evacuations.

[Sugarphreak]

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Just sad that Coast Guard was rushing supplies to earthquake regions.

But that doesn't mean you can ignore traffic controller and bad for the pilot that he survived and his crew didn't.

Typical emergency response attitude. No surprise who is at fault here.

So many responders for disasters end up creating new emergencies or complications.