UCP pronouns trans surgery MEGATHREAD

[gwill]

Just heard on radio. 988 surgeries down Canada wide for those transitioning. 66 were done on kids 17 or under

[Misterman]

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I wouldn't trust Beyond for school updates. There's at least one OG member who genuinely thought litter boxes were being installed in schools because Facebook said so.

Well to be fair, there was a school that literally put a litter box in.

[kertejud2]

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The argument on the pronouns is comical. Kids need a safe space at school because 25% of kids that come out get kicked out by the parents (according to some doctor who quoted this on CBC radio as I was grabbing lunch). If Jimmy wants to be a she, and parents are anti LGBTQ, I'd say having that conversation with parents is probably better than sneaking around being a she at school, and parents finding out after. I mean it'll suck either way for Jimmy, but the former is 100% better than the latter.

It sucks that Jimmy's parents are shitty and they don't feel they can talk to them. But if there are places and people at school they feel comfortable talking with (teachers, counselors, GSAs, etc), then that helps avoid the isolation that is a major underlying cause of issues LGBTQ youth have to deal with. The new system means Jimmy won't feel comfortable talking to anyone. If they were afraid to have the conversation with their parents before, they aren't going to want to have it just because the government says teachers need to disclose it to the parents they don't feel safe talking to. So if a conversation is better, this doesn't help that. It just means fewer conversations will happen, which is much worse for Jimmy.

It's not legislation meant to help people like Jimmy. It's legislation to appease to insecure, religious parents who hate people like Jimmy.

[killramos]

Imagine the woke echo chamber someone has to live in to think these common sense policies are only popular with “insecure, religious parents”.

*shudder*

[ExtraSlow]

When the basis for legislation is that parents are dangerous, its bad legislation.

[kertejud2]

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When the basis for legislation is that parents are dangerous, its bad legislation.

It was the absence of legislation that effectively dictated that some parents are shitty, so some individuals will choose to reveal personal information about themselves as they feel comfortable.

This is creating legislation that has a basis of ‘all parents are good’ which is naive to the point of being dangerous.

[gwill]

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Imagine the woke echo chamber someone has to live in to think these common sense policies are only popular with “insecure, religious parents”.

*shudder*

Angus Reid has polls that show 75% up to 80% of parents want to be informed of name changes In school and or needing parent approval for name change to be allowed.

Means only 20 to 25% of parents think it's a good idea to keep their children's life a secret from them.

[Thaco]

maybe i'm just wrong, as many of you here think i am.... but...

If you had a healthy relationship with your kids, maybe they wouldnt be afraid to share their feelings with you.... and this kind of govt overreach wouldn't be necessary

[rage2]

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It sucks that Jimmy's parents are shitty and they don't feel they can talk to them. But if there are places and people at school they feel comfortable talking with (teachers, counselors, GSAs, etc), then that helps avoid the isolation that is a major underlying cause of issues LGBTQ youth have to deal with. The new system means Jimmy won't feel comfortable talking to anyone. If they were afraid to have the conversation with their parents before, they aren't going to want to have it just because the government says teachers need to disclose it to the parents they don't feel safe talking to. So if a conversation is better, this doesn't help that. It just means fewer conversations will happen, which is much worse for Jimmy.

It's not legislation meant to help people like Jimmy. It's legislation to appease to insecure, religious parents who hate people like Jimmy.

How does this stop Jimmy from talking to teachers and counselors? Does Jimmy have to change his name or pronouns to talk to them? No it doesn't whatsoever. The new rules is for kids that want to fully come out publicly in school, with a bunch of fucking asshole kids. School is not a safe space to keep secrets from your parents, full stop. Maybe I'm jaded because I was bullied growing up, and helping some of my kids navigate bullying, but kids are fucking assholes. If my kid comes out at school without telling me, I sure would love to know so we can work out the ramifications of it and how to navigate their new normal.

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It was the absence of legislation that effectively dictated that some parents are shitty, so some individuals will choose to reveal personal information about themselves as they feel comfortable.

This is creating legislation that has a basis of ‘all parents are good’ which is naive to the point of being dangerous.

Not all parents are good, but it's not my place or your place to judge them. People have a freedom to chose what values to push on their kids. That is not for you or I to decide. If a shitty parent want to exclude their kids from LGBT/sex ed curriculum, they should have a right to. Again, parents are responsible and legally liable for the kids. You can't cherry pick what you can share with parents and what to exclude. That's unfair to parents that DO want this information about their children, regardless if you agree with it or not.

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maybe i'm just wrong, as many of you here think i am.... but...

If you had a healthy relationship with your kids, maybe they wouldnt be afraid to share their feelings with you.... and this kind of govt overreach wouldn't be necessary

It can go both ways. Maybe my kid's not sure if I'm full of shit or not. A notification would open up dialog between us about acceptance.

[littledan]

This type of discussion being a priority in society is a leading indicator of impending WW3.

[gwill]

I think the part that's been overlooked relates to teachers having to get families to opt into certain teachings. Having specific discussions, with approved material should put an end to the random teachers bringing forth stuff not approved by the school.

A good Twitter follow is @chanlpfa She's an ex teacher who posts all the non sense from schools across Canada. So much material for kids in grade one or two should never be randomly discussed.

As much as it's a good follow, it's highly disturbing how random teachers spread certain teachings.

[ExtraSlow]

I think reasonable people can agree that the vast majority of parents have a reasonable relationship with thier kids and act in that child's best interests. The vast majority of teachers also want what's best for the kids.

The problem on either side isn't the majority. There are very few teachers who harm kids, just as there are very few parents who harm kids. Both through physical violence, mental abuse, or exposure to unhealthy or radical ideology.

If anyone disagrees with the above I'd be shocked.

The presumption that teachers as a whole are better equipped, less biased, and less dangerous to the children than parents, is what's contentious.

[ThePenIsMightier]

If I was homosexual and a bunch of children started getting govt funding to "change their gender" (in part) because they didn't want to be called Faggots and Dykes anymore, I would call that "gay conversion therapy" and I would NOT be a proponent of it. At all.

But this seems apparently way different from that. So being super gay AF, I don't find myself firmly embedded in it.

[SKR]

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If anyone disagrees with the above I'd be shocked.

I expect by morning one of Beyond's late-night posters is going to shock you.

[ExtraSlow]

On a related note, the number of people who felt they were "born in the wrong body" has been nonzero for most or all of recorded human history. I don't know if reliable statistics exist for this. I know it's often stated that this has gone way up, but from what, and to what?

And is that change meaningful or problematic?

[ExtraSlow]

Also, snipped from a different thread from last year, here's some of my personal thoughts and experiences on the topic.

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I probably won't be posting detailed medical information for my family members on beyond, but I can say from having looked into it that it's a lengthy and long-term process to get into these things, and the younger the individual is, the more difficult and long-term the process appears to be.

I don't know how it works in other places, but as far as I know, you can't get true medical interventions here under a certain age, and even over that age, if you request them AND have the support of your family, the process takes several years before they really happen.

From what I know, doctors aren't handing out hormone therapy drugs, or chopping body parts off, on a whim.

[max_boost]

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How does this stop Jimmy from talking to teachers and counselors? Does Jimmy have to change his name or pronouns to talk to them? No it doesn't whatsoever. The new rules is for kids that want to fully come out publicly in school, with a bunch of fucking asshole kids. School is not a safe space to keep secrets from your parents, full stop. Maybe I'm jaded because I was bullied growing up, and helping some of my kids navigate bullying, but kids are fucking assholes. If my kid comes out at school without telling me, I sure would love to know so we can work out the ramifications of it and how to navigate their new normal.


Not all parents are good, but it's not my place or your place to judge them. People have a freedom to chose what values to push on their kids. That is not for you or I to decide. If a shitty parent want to exclude their kids from LGBT/sex ed curriculum, they should have a right to. Again, parents are responsible and legally liable for the kids. You can't cherry pick what you can share with parents and what to exclude. That's unfair to parents that DO want this information about their children, regardless if you agree with it or not.


It can go both ways. Maybe my kid's not sure if I'm full of shit or not. A notification would open up dialog between us about acceptance.

hugs boss. hugs.

[ExtraSlow]

Big +1 to rage2's comments above as well.

[kertejud2]

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The problem on either side isn't the majority. There are very few teachers who harm kids, just as there are very few parents who harm kids. Both through physical violence, mental abuse, or exposure to unhealthy or radical ideology.

If anyone disagrees with the above I'd be shocked.

The presumption that teachers as a whole are better equipped, less biased, and less dangerous to the children than parents, is what's contentious.

If you find out a child is being mentally and physically abused, do you think it’s more likely to be their teacher doing the abusing, or the family? How many teachers send kids to gay conversion therapy? Kids aren’t required to tell their teachers anything, why would they feel more comfortable talking to a teacher than their parents?

Nothing is stopping parents from having a conversation with their kids. Nothing is stopping parents from ensuring the language and attitude they use around their kids doesn’t make them feel like they wouldn’t be supportive.

It’s not a presumption that teachers are better equipped, or even less dangerous. The government didn’t require anybody to tell teachers anything. There was a natural progression to certain people not wanting their parents to know for whatever reason.

Put yourself in a teacher’s position. Your kid’s friend comes over and says they’re afraid their parents will kick them out if they find out they’re gay. They’ve gone to anti-LGBT protests, they say they’d beat gay people up, the kid is scared.theyve been over to your house all the time, you’ve been kind to them, you are somebody they trust, and feeling helpless they’ve opened up to you.

Now that you’ve been told, should you now be required to tell that kid’s parents about it? Does the lack of legislation requiring you to tell them presume you are less dangerous and better equipped than their parents? Do you think government legislation requiring you to do it would ensure the best outcome for the child in this situation?

[Thaco]

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On a related note, the number of people who felt they were "born in the wrong body" has been nonzero for most or all of recorded human history. I don't know if reliable statistics exist for this. I know it's often stated that this has gone way up, but from what, and to what?

And is that change meaningful or problematic?

no, the number of people who felt it but didnt vocalize it by fear of being lynched, has increased, people feel increasingly safer/more supported to vocalize their feelings, that's why it's more publicized.