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    Original Post Removed. (Please read the Forum Rules and Terms of Use before posting again, or risk getting banned).

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    Default rice?

    Originally posted by BuknBronco
    well im ready to put my money where my mouth is, bring it to race city, im there every friday
    Ill battle you? i to have a riced out civic hatchback?

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    Originally posted by WGR4Pussies
    so how much horsepower does your neon make?
    I wasn't making fun of the car if that is what you are saying.. not at all..



    The neon. Baseline and w/exhaust. I could try to get a few more out to race city.

    p.s. a second gear dyno makes no sense to me..

    dynojet, sae smoothing = 0. Jumpy curve thanks to the PCM constantly trying to keep control of things, which it does a little too well.. To be remedied soon..




    Neon Warning:
    avg from 1600-6000:
    base:
    164.53/225.43
    exhaust:
    166.37/238.89

    I should have reset the PCM, as the computer tries to counteract any increase in flow with a reduction of boost. Anyways.




    Edit: how about yours??
    Last edited by ACX; 08-09-2004 at 03:50 PM.

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    Originally posted by ACX



    p.s. a second gear dyno makes no sense to me..


    Not too hard to make sense of
    1) Does a motor make more torque or HP in 1 or in 5th?

    2) Lets use some numbers here the "raw number" for torque at the wheels for 2 seprate dyno pulls 2 separate cars.

    1st car dyno pull raw torque was done in 4th the raw number was 986 ft/lb
    2nd car dyno pull was done in 2nd the raw number was 1574.4 ft/lb

    the second car has the following 3.75 rear gears. .73 in 5th , 1.0 in 4th, 3rd is 1.56 2nd is 1.75 and 1st is 2.41 ratios.

    Car 1has everything the same except 4.11 rear gears
    Which car produced more torque realtive to the motor ?

    After you answer that question re read my first post and maybe a 2nd gear dyno will make sense to you.
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    You want to make the dyno in the most direct gear possible to get the most accurate results.
    Originally posted by Ridelikeme

    preludes are definately not slow.. they are the corvettes of the honda 4cylinder world..they float

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    Originally posted by Toms-Celica
    You want to make the dyno in the most direct gear possible to get the most accurate results.

    Ok I am listening please explain or is this just something you heard on the internet and are repeating it. While you are at it do the math above and answer the questions. Please don't give me the very very miniscual amount of friction between gear teeth of the output shaft and secondary shaft as your reason.
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    Tell you what, I got my dyno done at TOMA's dyno. Its a Ford AOD with pulls done and held in 3rd. If you are so confident that doing a dyno pull in any gear has no effects on the reading....and with your free dyno time to prove me wrong....I will drive out there and do a run anyway you want!

    This is why the MB: AMG's have a DYNO mode built right into the car.



    Further more what will happen to your fuel curve readings doing it in any gear?
    Originally posted by Ridelikeme

    preludes are definately not slow.. they are the corvettes of the honda 4cylinder world..they float

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    No problem done set up a time with me PM me


    Oh one other thing no answered me does an engine make more HP or Torque in 1 st or 4th gear.

    As for your fuel does it take more or less fuel to make the same horsepower in a lower gear.



    Why did you start your dyno pull at 3000 rpm?
    What is your AFR at 1500 rpm while starting to boost under load.
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    Originally posted by Dr. Lightspeed
    No problem done set up a time with me PM me


    1) Oh one other thing no answered me does an engine make more HP or Torque in 1 st or 4th gear.

    2) As for your fuel does it take more or less fuel to make the same horsepower in a lower gear.



    3) Why did you start your dyno pull at 3000 rpm?
    4) What is your AFR at 1500 rpm while starting to boost under load.
    1) That is what the dyno runs will help determine, a hands on lesson. What type of dyno do you use LightSpeed?
    2) I think I worded this question wrong, what would the Air/Fuel curve look like done in a lower gear?
    3) Had to start at 3000 RPM's because we could not allow the car to upshift into 4th.
    4) Wish I could tell you
    :tongue:
    Originally posted by Ridelikeme

    preludes are definately not slow.. they are the corvettes of the honda 4cylinder world..they float

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    Originally posted by WGR4Pussies
    Original Post Removed. (Please read the Forum Rules and Terms of Use before posting again, or risk getting banned).
    why was my post deleted?

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    Not to mention some turbo cars do not build full boost till loaded up in the higher gears, I know of a few cars out there that hardly build any boost till 3rd, and would need 1:1 4th gear pull to make boost across the entire rpm spread for tuning..
    Another aspect of torque multiplication on the dyno rollers using lower gears is the ability to stick the tire to the rollers, if I wound up my 440 in 1st, 2nd or even 3rd on the dyno, all I would accomplish is piling up about 3 " of powdered 35" mud terrain behind the dyno, any tire slippage on they dyno is an unwanted thing, the right ways is 1:1 ...Maxt
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    Originally posted by Toms-Celica


    1) That is what the dyno runs will help determine, a hands on lesson. What type of dyno do you use LightSpeed?
    2) I think I worded this question wrong, what would the Air/Fuel curve look like done in a lower gear?
    3) Had to start at 3000 RPM's because we could not allow the car to upshift into 4th.
    4) Wish I could tell you
    :tongue:
    Ok I agree with MAXT on a few of those points and several cars we have dynod needed to be done in higher gears.

    Fact some cars aren't buildin boost without being held down in a higher gear( thats why we are data logging the boost) if this is a problem we correct it.

    Fact some cars will spin the tires in lower gears these cars need to be dynod in higher gears. ( Easy to tell once again by lookin at the datalog)

    So if these factors are not present there is no reason to dyno in higher gears.

    Fact loading a motor up in a higher gear is way harder on the motor. ( a 1-1 test in a higher gear will hold your engine at wot for quite a range- matter of fact a lot of the lower horsepower cars will not even be able to hit their redline in 4th when loaded down on the dyno-building an incredible amount of heat in the process)

    Fact if you run a car through the RPM faster and have the datalogging capabilty and for some reason you have a small range of 500 rpm say that maybe goes lean it gives you chance to catch it before it does damage( .2 secs lean is way better than 1-1.5 secs lean- most 1-1 tests take upwards of 10-15 secs while a 2 nd gear test may only take 5 secs). Lots of engines have been scattered on dynos I am trying my hardest not to see one scattered on mine. Maxt can probally attest to the fact that while tuning rotarys you may not have another chance so I try my hardest to make shure I do.

    Please no one take this as a slam but why would I push someones basically stock car harder than was needed. I don't take pleasure in destroying a clients car.

    If your tires are not spinning and the turbo is making boost your engine will make the same power in 4th or in 1st.

    Assuming the above statement the fuel curve will be the same in 1st and 4th.(which can be verified by looking at the datalogs once again)

    You said it was upshifting did you mean possibly downshifting into 2nd because I could not understand why it would upshift. This is exactly why on your car I would have done the test in 1 st just to prevent that very issue. If you did that you would have your air fuels from 1000 rpm up. I have the same identical dyno to Toma a Mustang MD-250. That is the other thing if boost in the lower gears was an issue than I could hold the dyno back for a certain amount of time making the test an exact time.

    Once again different procedures for different situations. Not all cars are equal and not are cars are dynod in the same method. I am shure some of the other experts will have their opinion also
    and shed more light on the subject.
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    I've always seen pulls done indeed at the closest to 1:1. This invariably is 4th it seems..

    As for power, mine makes the least in 1st due to boost restrictions.

    I guess what I'm saying is that saying "yo my car made X to the wheels on the dyno" if it was a first gear pull can be dubious in terms of saying "the mods did wonders"

    For tuning fine. But the thousands of dynos hat take place daily, with the cars at or near the 1:1 to me states that it isn't exactly an anomaly.

    To not have a baseline, and roll in for a second gear dyno to see what your mods have done gives you little relative information.

    I'm no expert, am not here for a math lesson, just stating that a second gear dyno didn't make sense to me - showcasing the fact that I am no expert. Not being flippant.

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    Originally posted by Maxt
    Not to mention some turbo cars do not build full boost till loaded up in the higher gears, I know of a few cars out there that hardly build any boost till 3rd, and would need 1:1 4th gear pull to make boost across the entire rpm spread for tuning..
    I was under the impression that the reason some cars dont start making high boost till higher gears is because they run through the first one to two gears so fast (pistons are accelerating faster) then in the other gears, so they dont have time to built boost.???

    thats onet hing i could be way off on tho.

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    So when you dyno a car do you put the exact ratio down as a variable? I assume that most people don't memorize their gear ratios. That's why I thought most people used 4th gear because it's accepted to be close to 1:1 and just makes things more convenient.

    An easy way to solve this arguement is to have someone dyno their car in both 2nd and 4th gears and see the difference.
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    Originally posted by WGR4Pussies


    I was under the impression that the reason some cars dont start making high boost till higher gears is because they run through the first one to two gears so fast (pistons are accelerating faster) then in the other gears, so they dont have time to built boost.???

    thats onet hing i could be way off on tho.
    The PCM limits boost on me in the first gear. 10 pounds.

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    Hell, Dr. Lightspeed make his living fudging dyno numbers for his tornado throttle body spacers to people who dont know any better. But hey, there's one born every minute right? Let the good times roll!

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    Originally posted by dishrag
    Hell, Dr. Lightspeed make his living fudging dyno numbers for his tornado throttle body spacers to people who dont know any better. But hey, there's one born every minute right? Let the good times roll!
    lol

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    Originally posted by dishrag
    Hell, Dr. Lightspeed make his living fudging dyno numbers for his tornado throttle body spacers to people who dont know any better. But hey, there's one born every minute right? Let the good times roll!
    Rofl:4th gear dyno vs 3st gear dyno... "picked up 20 lb-ft of torque by installing my mini spare delete kit in 5 seconds"



    I am not knocking the Dr. Personally in the least..

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