Police produce mysterious informant

[X_plorer]

Wondering if anyone has fought a failure to stop for a yellow light or a red light ticket? If so how did you beat it? My bf was pulled over downtown for "failure to stop for a yellow light" and ticketed as such. He decided to fight it and mailed in his ticket as "Not guilty" and received his confirmation letter back in the mail with a court date. Suddenly today he gets a letter that the ticket has been upgraded to "Failing to stop for a Red Light" because an informant came forward according the the letter that was sent from the prosecuters office. They gave the informants name(no idea who it is, it is not the ticketing officer) and the informant is a woman and I believe the two cops who pulled us over to be men. So how does a ticket that a cop wrote as yellow go to red from an informant? No idea when the informant came forward as parts of the form were blank. Any ideas? Input? Awfully convienient he goes to fight the ticket and the cops produce a magic witness. The light was yellow yes but not Red. Advice PLEASE?

Thnxs X_plorer

[streetarab]

here in the u.s. (i dont know anything about canada)a police officer has to actually witness the offense, if they didnt see it, they cannot do anything about it, this is to prevent shit like this from happening, id say fight it, those are some fukt up circumstances

[ntv1980]

I'd say fight it. Here's a similar case:

A friend of mine got a ticket from a fishery officer with the claim "Illegal bait" even though it's not. And yes, guess what, suddenly there are two magic informants coming out to be the witness along with the ****head on the court appearance.

Come out to the judge, my friend questioned those witnesses, and, not surprisingly, they produce inconsistent responses. So, my friend walked away from the ticket.

I'm still wondering if my friend could have counter sued the false witnesses tho. This will prevent those idiots having nothing to do but try to harm others. Something like "obstruction of justice" or "perjury".

so, PREPARE the case and fight it.

[7thgenvic]

pull the whole poor student! you couldn't stop! weather prohibited stoping!
there is lots of things you can do to fight the ticket!
and if was yellow, fight that it was yellow! TAKE IT TO COURT and fight!

[X_plorer]

Only problem is he was pleading not guilty to running the yellow so if he argues it was yellow then the judge is going to ask why he originally pled not guilty to the yellow-they will charge you penalties on the ticket sometimes if you plead not guilty and then just pay the ticket or are found guilty and they think you did it just to put the ticket off. As well yes the roads were icey but if you say you couldn't stop for ice I think the court will say you were driving too fast for the road conditions? My bf was hoping to go and maybe just have to pay the fine and not have any demerits(sometimes you can negotiate the penalty) but now this whole Red light BS came up. Obviously the light was not red as the cop wrote the ticket for a yellow light and I am sure if the light was red he would of loved to of nailed us for it. No wonder cops only have cops for other friends.

[Khyron]

They can't all of a sudden up the charge just because you decided to fight the ticket. Sounds like a bluff - fight that for sure, and you can fight the yellow saying it was a judgement call based on conditions and the big vehicle that was following you.

If the police witnessed you running the yellow, he can't change it to a red because that would mean he was lying/in error with the original yellow ticket.

Khyron

[Toma]

exactly what khyron said. Any doubt as to what the Cop saw will have the ticket tossed. If he could not tell it was red, then how did he know it was yellow, and why does he need to rely on a witness.?

Plus the witness has to go to court, and while cops are paid for court time, the witness is not, so I would not worry about it.

So, the cops opinion will not count, then it is you and your boyfriends word against the witness (yes, I found out the passengers testimony DOES count, but you have to be there)

Go and ask for "disclosure".... this takes at least 4 weeks, so move your court date if you need to. Disclosure is simply a copy of all the evidence they will be using against you, and they HAVE to provide it if you ask.

[Maxt]

I think you should bring a friend with you , make sure he is wearing a paper bag on his head with the eyes cut out, then tell the police you have your own witness or "informant"...They will either throw you or your ticket out of court...50/50 chance ...

[Proyecto2000]

Originally posted by Maxt
I think you should bring a friend with you , make sure he is wearing a paper bag on his head with the eyes cut out, then tell the police you have your own witness or "informant"...They will either throw you or your ticket out of court...50/50 chance ...

lol thats funny

[skidmark]

Why not request disclosure and find out what is going on?

[X_plorer]

Anyone know where I request this from or what forms I need?(To get all the disclosure and evidence and what not?) I tried looking around the crown website but it is awfully confusing. The form with the "informant's" statement on it was sent from the Crown Prosecuters office. Parts of it were blank, such as the date and informants signature- I would be very interested in knowing what date the informant came forward-before or after he fought the ticket. As well yes I am also hoping the witness does not come so the ticket can just be tossed. The problem will be trying to control the BF's temper and swearing, as soon as he loses control of either of those the judge will just find him guilty. Thansk for all the suggestions though, definitley going to be looking into this more.

[X_plorer]

Thanks for the disclosure tip, I will be calling the Crown Prosecuters office tommorow and requesting "disclosure". Will see what they send me and keep everyone posted.

[Toma]

You usually have to go down to the court house in person. I cant remember where you ask for disclosure, but I recall picking it up on the 15th floor of the same buidling. I would just go in and talk to the people in the wickets where you enter your plea....

Toma

[Tyler883]

something about this story doesn't sound right, are you sure there isn't more to it? I think you ave been filtering the facts of this story....

did he get into an accident, too? because I doubt that the police officer took down the names of potential witnesses just for a mere traffic light offense.

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by X_plorer
The problem will be trying to control the BF's temper and swearing, as soon as he loses control of either of those the judge will just find him guilty. Thansk for all the suggestions though, definitley going to be looking into this more.

Wow, you have quite the catch! Worried if he'll lose his temper and be found guilty of the ticket? You should be more worried about what the judge will do to him if he starts swearing in court.

[X_plorer]

Well actually he is quite a catch, hard working and responsible to boot, he just has a problem with cursing. He's just p/o'd that he pleads not guilty and all of a sudden they convieniently upgrade his ticket once he tries to fight it. I'm not saying he would fly off the handle in the court room but he will definitley have to bite his tongue.

Yes he does have to pick his documents up in person, or give me a letter so I can go do it, then we can find out who the informant is. The girl at the Crowns office said usually the informant that upgrades the charge is the ticketing officer-in this case it is not-it is some woman of Calgary, Alberta according to the statement.

And no there was no accident, just a ticket for failing to stop for a yellow light, so that is why we are puzzeled who the informant is since there was really no one else around that night and who takes the time to stop and go to a cop shop and report a minor traffic violation?

[DayGlow]

was he pulled over and handed the ticket at the scene, or did he recieve the summons after the fact from an officer?

The only thing I can think of is that the ticket was based off of a 3rd party witness and when the crown reviewed the statements, decided that a red light violation was a more approprate charge. They have the power to change what the charge is as well.

[X_plorer]

Yes he was pulled over by a police officer and ticketed with the yellow light ticket that night. The charge was only upgraded after he pled not guilty to the ticket, which was close to the end of the 1 month they give you to pay it or plead not guilty, that is why I am so suspicous that they suddenly found some witness that is more qualified than two traffic cops to give a statement that the light was red and they just go and up the charge. I mean if someone else says the light is red, the cop wrote the ticket for yellow who knows what color the light was right? At least my BF gets the chance to question the supposed informant and see if they really know any details. He still has to go pick up his disclosure docs which will contain the police officers notes and witness statements etc... if any.

[black j]

I'd say get the disclosure.
See what notes the cop took, and that'll tell you why the charge was upgraded, as well as whether or not he's out to screw you over.

Then go to court, ask for an extension.
This way the witness has to show up twice, the likely hood of which is low to begin with on a trafic offense so long as its a civilian bystander, and not a fellow CPS member.
Lets face with CPS court days = overtime

[X_plorer]

Okay my Bf picked up his disclosure documents. I guess the informant is the crown prosecuter since they review all tickets that are being fought. They upgraded the charge to running a red light because the cop wrote in his notes that my BF admitted to running the red and travelling at a high rate of speed. Now I can say that my BF said no more than 5 words to that cop the whole time we were pulled over and he certainly isn't dumb enough to admit to anything. And if he supposedly admitted to running the red why did the cop write the ticket for failure to stop for a yellow light? Think it can be fought on that? And the fact that no one would be dumb enough to admit to something more than they are being charged with. Can't the cop write that on all his notes, that you admitted to it and it would always be your word against his. A little sketchy is all I have to say.