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Thread: Consumer Reports Quality Survey - Subaru Owners rejoice

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    Default Consumer Reports Quality Survey - Subaru Owners rejoice

    Yahoo Article

    Subaru at Top in Quality Survey

    Sat Mar 5, 7:55 AM ET

    Add to My Yahoo! Top Stories - Los Angeles Times

    By John O'Dell Times Staff Writer

    Subaru, the Japanese automaker known for its all-wheel-drive vehicles, won the top spot for the highest-quality brand among new cars in Consumer Reports' annual automotive issue.

    The magazine's annual survey of product quality and performance, which hits newsstands Tuesday but has already gone to subscribers, ranks Japanese and South Korean automakers tops for quality. U.S. brands are second but fall below the industry average, and Europeans rank a distant third.

    Subaru jumped 16 places to become the most reliable automotive brand overall for 2004 models. It's the first time Subaru finished in the top spot in the 26 years Consumer Reports has conducted the survey.

    Subaru owners reported eight problems per 100 cars and SUVs sold — an 8% problem rate. Honda was the second-highest-rated brand at 9%, and Toyota took third at 10%. Lexus, last year's leader, fell to fourth with an 11% rate.

    In another surprise, the magazine found South Korean automaker Hyundai Motor Co.'s mid-size Sonata sedan to be the most reliable car in the U.S. last year, with just two problems reported for every 100 cars sold.

    "That's quite dramatic and shows that Hyundai has really made a big effort," said David Champion, Consumer Reports' auto testing director. "It used to be a joke to have Hyundai and reliability in the same sentence."

    Last year's reliability champ was Toyota Motor Corp.'s Lexus GS sedan.

    "With Subaru and Hyundai doing so well, we have two newcomers pushing the others to do even better," Champion said.

    The magazine's quality ratings are based on surveys from 810,000 vehicle owners. Subscribers were asked to report problems in 17 areas, such as engine or bodywork troubles, for vehicles up to 8 years old.

    As for the U.S. automakers, they keep drawing closer to their Asian rivals but never quite catch up. The best U.S. brands — Ford, which ranked ninth, and Pontiac, 10th — had 15 problems per 100 vehicles for 2004 models, more than twice Subaru's rate. Audi was the best from Europe, with a 12% problem rate.

    The industry average for 2004 model vehicles was a 16% problem rate, compared with 17% a year earlier.

    As a group, Asian brands averaged 12 problems per 100 vehicles, a score unchanged for three years. It wasn't all glory, though. Nissan Motor Co., hobbled by glitches with the Titan pickup, the Armada SUV and the Quest minivan built at its new Mississippi plant, fell well below the average with a 19% problem rate.

    Several brands were not rated because of insufficient responses, the magazine said.

    Domestic brands fell just below the industry mean, averaging 17 problems per 100 vehicles sold, an improvement from 18 last year. "They've been getting a little more reliable year after year," Champion said.

    European passenger vehicle brands continued dragging the bottom with a 21% problem rate, slightly worse than the previous survey's 20%.

    Of about 160 models surveyed, the worst reliability scores, with 49 problems per 100 vehicles, were tallied by two behemoth vehicles: Ford Motor Co.'s Lincoln Navigator SUV and the Nissan Quest minivan.

    This is the second consecutive year U.S. brands outscored European makes. The European automakers, long plagued by problems with complex electrical systems, have been further hurt by quality problems with their SUVs, Champion said.



    Volkswagen's Touareg, for instance, had one of the worst results in the survey, with 48 problems reported per 100 vehicles. Porsche's Cayenne, which shares the same vehicle platform, had 41 problems per 100. BMW's X5 and DaimlerChrysler's Mercedes-Benz M-Class SUV, the Mercedes E-Class sedan and Volkswagen's New Beetle also scored far below average in reliability.

    In a separate satisfaction survey, Consumer Reports asked subscribers whether they would buy the same car or truck again. The magazine said it received more than 250,000 responses.

    In this category, the Toyota Prius gas-electric hybrid topped the list — a first for a hybrid — with 94% of owners saying they would repeat. Last year's leader, the Lexus LS430 sedan, dropped into second place with a 92% positive response.

    Of 32 vehicles on the magazine's "most satisfying" list, 25 are Japanese models, six are European, and only one, General Motors Corp.'s Chevrolet Corvette, is a domestic model.

    The survey shows that satisfaction and quality don't always mesh: The reliable Hyundai Sonata doesn't appear on the list of most satisfying vehicles, but the Nissan Titan pickup, which received poor reliability scores, does.

    In another first for hybrids, Consumer Reports named the 2005 Honda Accord Hybrid as its best pick for a family sedan. The hybrid uses a V-6 engine and an electric drive system to provide enhanced performance with the fuel economy of a four-cylinder car.

    *

    (BEGIN TEXT OF INFOBOX)

    Reliability survey

    Asian automakers continue to lead the industry in reliability, according to a Consumer Reports survey of 810,000 passenger vehicle owners in the U.S.

    Top five

    Brand Parent company Problems per 100 vehicles
    Model year
    2004 2003
    Subaru Fuji 8 17
    Honda Honda 9 10
    Acura Honda 10 13
    Toyota Toyota 10 11
    Lexus Toyota 11 9

    Bottom five

    Nissan Nissan 19 14
    BMW BMW 21 19
    Volkswagen Volkswagen 23 19
    Mercedes-Benz DaimlerChrysler 25 22
    Lincoln Ford 26 31

    Some brands, including Hummer, Isuzu, Jaguar, Kia, Mini, Mitsubishi and Porsche, were not rated because of insufficent owner responses.

    Source: Consumers Union

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    ouch for nissan. definetely not keeping pace with japanese counterparts.

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    at least its not nissans cars that are causing the problems, the article blames the trucks and van from mississippi

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    Booyaaa...

    "In another surprise, the magazine found South Korean automaker Hyundai Motor Co.'s mid-size Sonata sedan to be the most reliable car in the U.S. last year, with just two problems reported for every 100 cars sold"
    Maybe it should have been "Watch as a bunch of teenagers defend their 10+ year old economy compacts as race cars"

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    These articles shouldnt influence anyone very much. The reason taht BMW and Mercedes have more problems is because they have more features. I can build a box with an engine and wheels and it will be the most reliable car in america.

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    gee....I think I'll go buy a hyundai now, screw the bmw 3 series, it's a low quality, unreliable piece of garbage now

    All these surveys do is employ a couple people for a few weeks, and in no way is the information entirely accurate.

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    This is a huge shame for Nissan, Lincoln, and Mercedes especially MB, since they seem to be riding mostly on their reputation now.

    If you ask me, you can feel a difference in the quality of their cars. Not even comparing 20-25 years ago (because that would be somewhat irrelevant, but true) but take a look at the <1999 S-Class vs. the New one, Same with the C Class, and the E prior to 1996.

    I am not familar with BMW, but it is a shame, and somewhat surprising.

    Volks I know are pretty unreliable cars, I hate to sound ignorant, but I recall reading somewhere that their golfs etc are not made in Germany?

    I love Lincolns LS, but wouldn't be getting one after reading this.
    Originally posted by arian_ma
    your stomach is full of sulfuric acid

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    Honda's sittin pretty

    Here come the VW owners "Well, it doesn't say what malfunctioned. It was probably a door handle that broke"
    Original Post NAZI Moderated


    Originally posted by r3cc0s
    Felon or Mistermeiner

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    My sister's 2003 hyundai accent gsi has had a bunch of problems since she bought it new, all the problems associated with it being put together poorly and being made of low-quality materials. I didn't expect much since it's only about 15g new, but come on. How can a 'survey' come out and say it's more reliable, and of better quality than my dad's f-150 per say? This is a joke. Every brand has it's lemons, which voids my right to go around saying hynudai is garbage. But out of the millions of vehicle owners in the US, 810,000 of them say that a mercedes is of less quality than a subaru? Please.

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    It clearly states satisfaction does not equate with quality.

    Also, the Sonota (who names a car after a bodily function?) maybe rated #1 as far as CR is concerned, but it doesn't take into account things like...

    1) Problems NOT reported. IE, Someone paying high end money for a high end car (ie MB, BMW, VW) WILL REPORT EVERY SINGLE THING! I would. But a lower priced car owner won't care as much (eeeh, it's just a POS Hyundai, who cares if the trim broke, it's supposed to, it's no Benz).

    2) Individual reporting methodolgy. I know for a fact BMW, MB are much more methodical about keep customer records and tracking. I'm also 100% sure Hyndai and the other car makers are NOT.

    3) Inerhent flaws with all 'consumer' reports. They themselves admit to these biases and inherent flaws (as with all attempts at quantifying unquantifiable events).
    IE It's tough to subjectifiy things that are sometimes just opinion/conjecture.

    SO, good for Hyundai (I love the Tib, we have one parked at my house!) But, don't blow it out of proportion.

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    Originally posted by 86max
    My sister's 2003 hyundai accent gsi has had a bunch of problems since she bought it new, all the problems associated with it being put together poorly and being made of low-quality materials. I didn't expect much since it's only about 15g new, but come on.
    EXACTLY! You didn't expect much for 15K Hyundai right? (As you state), so would you report every little problem? Probably not.

    Also, I'm not 100% sure how CR does their 'reports'.

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    okay, lets try and discredit the number one consumer reporting agency in all of north america. sounds like a pretty hopeless argument to me. just because they rated your car bad doesn't mean they don't know what they are doing.

    looks like Volkswagon sucked ass, just like I said it did. Six more problems per 100 then the domestic average. How do you argue that? looks like they got eight more problems on average then Pontiac. wow, that takes some doing.

    btw the 19 Volkswagon got includes Audi and all their subsidaries, so that score does not count for excusing their shoddy quality.

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    Originally posted by BumpinTalon
    okay, lets try and discredit the number one consumer reporting agency in all of north america. sounds like a pretty hopeless argument to me. just because they rated your car bad doesn't mean they don't know what they are doing.

    looks like Volkswagon sucked ass, just like I said it did. Six more problems per 100 then the domestic average. How do you argue that? looks like they got eight more problems on average then Pontiac. wow, that takes some doing.

    btw the 19 Volkswagon got includes Audi and all their subsidaries, so that score does not count for excusing their shoddy quality.
    Yup I agree. I would never consider a VW. Poor quality. Bad service.

    Nissan, basically any of the vehicles that are not made in japan, are lower quality hands down.

    I was looking at a GS400 at a mercedes dealership, the salesman said that the lexus GS was the most reliable car on the lot, hahahaha. It was funny. He was saying that mercedes cant touch lexus reliability, but in turn lexus does not have as much exterior flare to their cars compaired to mercedes.

    Now BMW, I have no experience with owning a BMW but this thread basically tuned me off BMW's.

    http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.p...ghlight=winter

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    Well shit, since you guys on here all know better you should publish your own list

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    Must be those craptastic coilpacks and window regulators that are bringing vw down. Then again, im a little surprised the Touareg has so many problems with it.

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    Originally posted by A2VR6
    Then again, im a little surprised the Touareg has so many problems with it.
    What do you mean??? Since when has VW known to make solid sport utility type vehicles?

    Are you really that surprised? They are out of their element, and even their own "element" needs work.

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    Remember, the more trucks a manufacturer has on the lineup, the worst this number will get. Toyota (10 trucks/suvs) and Honda (4 truck/suv) are still sitting pretty good. Nissan is hurting because of all new trucks from new plants (Titan/Armada/Pathfinder/Xterra/Frontier are all new in 04/05). But Nissan weren't that great to start with since the new turnover products start coming onto the market anyway.

    Last I checked, the only Scooby can be called a truck is the Baja and that thing doesn't sell at all. Number will come down when more people buys the Tribeca.

    And gadgets also prompt more calls. Luxury cars tends to get more toys that people don't know how to use. Each call to support will count as a problem.

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    Originally posted by Hollywood


    What do you mean??? Since when has VW known to make solid sport utility type vehicles?

    Are you really that surprised? They are out of their element, and even their own &quot;element&quot; needs work.
    Thats true, but if VW plans to sell their sport utility type vehicles in the upper range of the market (~$50,000+) I would expect them to atleast have decent reliability.

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    I cant say much for cars outside of Honda (both my Hondas so far have been extremely reliable).

    But for trucks I can speak with experience. Spending part of my life growing up on my Grandpa's orchards in California, I have seen trucks get the shit kicked out of them on a daily basis. All that gets driven and actually lasts in that farming community are GM and Chevy trucks. If you think its impressive when a car is still running good after 200K, I'd like to see how ppl would feel when they see a 95 Chevy Silverado with 200K on it that has never even seen a paved road but still drives good. Anything can be written about a cars reliability these days, you cant really believe it until you see it year after year yourself. So am i surprised that Lincoln/Ford or Dodge/Chrysler were found not to be reliable? Not really, I've seen these trucks fall apart so fast.

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    Originally posted by Weapon_R
    Honda's sittin pretty

    Here come the VW owners &quot;Well, it doesn't say what malfunctioned. It was probably a door handle that broke&quot;
    Ha. Ha. Been there seen the carnage.

    Things aren't exactly going too good for Ford these days. Toyota will surpass Ford to be the second largest automaker, their car sales have been declining for the last few years, and now they are the most unreliable vehicle you can buy. If it wasn't for truck sales, Ford would be in big trouble. Anyone interested in purchasing the first year of the new Ford Mustang?

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