Don't mess with China...

[Super_Geo]

Originally posted by DEREK57
Alberta should seperate.


-continue discussion-

If we just went out and said, "As today, Tueday March 10, 2005, Alberta is now the free nation of Alberta," I fully expect the Canadian military to be here shortly.

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by Super_Geo


It's like if the North never marched into Texas, could Texas become their own country? It's a laughable idea.

Your analogy is correct, except that technically, Texas is the only state that can suceed the union

Originally posted by Super_Geo


If we just went out and said, "As today, Tueday March 10, 2005, Alberta is now the free nation of Alberta," I fully expect the Canadian military to be here shortly.

Highly unlikely - we just covered this in class yesterday concerning Quebec. The reason why Canada would not want a hostile Alberta is because they still have claims to BC. Think of how difficult we'd make it for them to get there.

Besides, if a province separated, Canada should just sit back and watch. The startup costs of creating a new financial system and establishing a new government and international status is enormous, and would probably crash the small economies of provinces.

[thich]

Originally posted by Rav4Guy
that's some protesting there. Is China going to look at them and say.. "aww.. they're protesting.. I guess we'll just delay our plans." NOPE. they sure won't.

But at least people are still voicing their opinions to the entire city... which is something that is somewhat rare in China.

and btw... even though HK has their own flag... separate kind of government (for now), it still belong to China.

I wasn't saying that the protests were going to amount to much - I said there were protests and that HK wasn't really democratic.

From a historical point of view, the Chinese people don't really care about their governing party (dynasties in the past) unless the people are really suffering. The communist party has only been around for half a century- merely a blip in China's 4000 year history - they still have a long ways to go.
Unless the communist party screws up big time somewhere, the general populace won't do much.

I know HK has its own flag - sorta like how Alberta has one :P
I didn't argue HK didn't belong to China either - it's been part of China since late 90s.

I dun even think we're on two different sides of the argument lol :tongue:

[Super_Geo]

Originally posted by Weapon_R
Highly unlikely - we just covered this in class yesterday concerning Quebec. The reason why Canada would not want a hostile Alberta is because they still have claims to BC. Think of how difficult we'd make it for them to get there.

Besides, if a province separated, Canada should just sit back and watch. The startup costs of creating a new financial system and establishing a new government and international status is enormous, and would probably crash the small economies of provinces.

It was more of a hypothetical suggestion than an actual look at the logistics of Albertan sucession. But just for shits and giggles, let's assume that Alberta could become fully independent and self reliant, Canada would have far too much to lose by just sitting back and watching.

In fact, if the government in Ottawa just sat back and watched as the richest province sitting on a sea of oil made its own country, without doing all it can to stop it (diplomacy followed by force), I'll be a monkey's uncle

[DEREK57]

Originally posted by Super_Geo


If we just went out and said, "As today, Tueday March 10, 2005, Alberta is now the free nation of Alberta," I fully expect the Canadian military to be here shortly.

Well if it was just a rouge seperation. But what about a referendum? If we, the citizens of Alberta decided to opt out of our obligation to the rest of the nation, is that not our right? Regardless of whether the Canadian 'military' would intervene or not.

Originally posted by Super_Geo


It was more of a hypothetical suggestion than an actual look at the logistics of Albertan sucession. But just for shits and giggles...

:nod: Therefore Derek shouldnt be shot.

let's assume that Alberta could become fully independent and self reliant, Canada would have far too much to lose by just sitting back and watching.

In fact, if the government in Ottawa just sat back and watched as the richest province sitting on a sea of oil made its own country, without doing all it can to stop it (diplomacy followed by force), I'll be a monkey's uncle

Of course they would try, but should they be allowed to stop it? Isnt that highly hypocritical for a nation that preaches liberal democracy, and gov't by representation.

[hjr]

Originally posted by Super_Geo


During the American Civil War, after the South had lost, did the North need to cruise through every single state and county before they could assert their right as the new government of America? Of course not. Yet, the North had claim to all of America.

How is the situation in China different? It's like if the North never marched into Texas, could Texas become their own country? It's a laughable idea.

if texas or some other southern state wanted to stay independent and did not surrender, then yes, the north would have had to have marched on them. But all of the south surrendered. that is why the north didnt have to march into all the states.
Taiwan on the other hand did not surrender. they did not give up, and that's why they are a seperate entity to this day.

do you see where you were wrong there?

[gran turismo]

Would everyone agree that in almost all respects, Taiwan is a sovereign state? It has its own currency/economy and government. I'm not sure if they have the same laws as mainland China or not. My point is, how the western world would stand by and watch if China takes back Taiwan forcefully would not happen. There are sanctions right now placed on China for the massacre at Tianenmen Square which happened in the heart of China.

If Taiwan, who most of the world view as a democratric state, is taken forcefully by a communist regime and casualites ensue, there is going to be huge fireworks. Honestly, I think this situation is much more volitile than the conflict in the middle east. This situation would immediately bring China up against the US. The two biggest superpowers in the world right now. Scary stuff.

[DEREK57]

Originally posted by gran turismo
Would everyone agree that in almost all respects, Taiwan is a sovereign state? It has its own currency/economy and government. I'm not sure if they have the same laws as mainland China or not. My point is, how the western world would stand by and watch if China takes back Taiwan forcefully would not happen. There are sanctions right now placed on China for the massacre at Tianenmen Square which happened in the heart of China.

If Taiwan, who most of the world view as a democratric state, is taken forcefully by a communist regime and casualites ensue, there is going to be huge fireworks. Honestly, I think this situation is much more volitile than the conflict in the middle east. This situation would immediately bring China up against the US. The two biggest superpowers in the world right now. Scary stuff.

To an extent it is very important, though Im not sure how far the US would back Taiwan. I know they want Tiawan to be independent, and I think theres always some American naval ships in Tiawanese ports (just in case the CHinese wanna send missiles over).....but I really dont think the US would defend them to the brink of a major war. Even though China doesnt really have much of a navy, it is a sleeping giant in terms of land force, and if they start a war in the area, they will undoubtably expand in all directions.

I mean the sanctions are more of a slap on the wrist (compared to what they have against Cubans...who arnt even that bad anymore). I really dont think the US is that eager to make enemies with the Chinese...for the freedom of a few million tiawanese.

[RiCE-DaDDy]

Taiwan isnt even a recognized country by UN or most of the international community.

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by gran turismo


If Taiwan, who most of the world view as a democratric state, is taken forcefully by a communist regime and casualites ensue, there is going to be huge fireworks. Honestly, I think this situation is much more volitile than the conflict in the middle east. This situation would immediately bring China up against the US.

Are you joking? Don't kid yourself, the U.S. will not fight China over Taiwan. Huge fireworks? LOL. The war would end in 15 minutes, the West would warn, plead, sanction, and perhaps cry a little in urging the Chinese to leave, and that would be the end of it.

China is not a pushover like Afghanistan. They have the capability and the willingness to strike deep inside the U.S. if Bush decides it wants to flirt with the idea of invading. Hell, I can't think of a single country in the world, or group of countries that would want to invade China.

[Rav4Guy]

The only reason why US is there because they like to stick their nose into EVERYTHING.

If taiwan goes independent.. its another puppet for the US to play with and one that's pretty close to China too.

China will do everything it can if anything should start. Chinese people will unite and bring the countries down. If all the Chinese people stopped working... we'd be screwed. No more dim sum for you!