Calgary Flames New Arena Update

[rage2]

http://calgaryherald.com/news/local-...e-flames-arena

Not the greatest article to read, but basically, City thinks Calgary Flames LP (CFLP) is on crack asking for handouts over at West Village, pretty much the only site that CFLP is realistically looking at. Dropping an arena there will seriously undermine future tax revenues of the area. If the CFLP wants to build there, they'll need to buy the land themselves.

I completely agree with Nenshi and City Council that there should be no handouts for CFLP on the new arena. Hell, I even disagree on publically funded projects such as the library. CRL or not, all Calgary taxpayers are on the hook, as we've seen in this week's budget and tax increase discussions.

As a Flames fan, I would love to see a new arena in West Village that ties into the revitalization project there. The city should only help in funding for infrastructure changes to support the area, especially the Crowchild bridge gongshow in that area that severely needs updating. This is something that the city needs to do anyways regardless of an arena going in or not, so I'm all for it.

Hockey isn't a cheap sport. If Flames fans wants a new arena, Flames fans should be the ones to pay for the new arena, through ticket sales, and Personal Seat Licenses that guarantees first rights of refusal for their seats for all events in the new arena.

With that being said, I can see where CFLP is coming from. The city has been on a spending spree on projects such as the library, NMC, with over a billion dollars poured into the area in the name of revitalization. While I don't agree with it, CFLP shouldn't get such a quick rejection from Nenshi and City Council because it's no different than such a project. You can argue that the CFLP is a private business, but so are the developers that are raking in all that money in East Village. A new arena in that area, with condos, shopping, restaurants, nightlife and fixed road infrastructure would be an awesome way to clean that mess up. West downtown has grown to the edge of the area already, it's only logical that area should be cleaned up and expanded on next.

[killramos]

SO basically this replaces GSL?

Its actually a good location...

I think the only way they will ever see funding support is if we ever get another olympic bid...

It needs TOP NOTCH parking to make this feasible though...

[CapnCrunch]

The Flames will just incorporate a new circle bike track around the new stadium design and Nenshi will bend over and ask for seconds.

[lasimmon]

Isn't the area polluted and would require significant remediation and reclamation before any housing could go in?

[killramos]

Originally posted by lasimmon
Isn't the area polluted and would require significant remediation and reclamation before any housing could go in?

Who said anything about housing?

I think a big concern will be putting that many billions of development dollars into a flood plane again...

Maybe they can keep come million horsepower pumps on standby. Arena-on-stilsts?

[rage2]

There's a West Village plan floating around from a few years ago put together by the city. The plan was for a mixed residential and commercial area, no arena, and the city footing the bill for the cleanup required to make it feasible.

It's not a flood area, the area is actually quite elevated compared to the north side (Memorial drive) and the river doesn't really choke down there either. The closest flood zone in that area would be Sunnyside. West Hillhurst's flooding doesn't count as that was all from sewer backup, and was actually quite a bit inland.

edit - here ya go.

http://wpmedia.blogs.calgaryherald.c...illage_arp.pdf

Condensed ARP:

http://www.realestateforums.com/calg...thias_tita.pdf

It was approved in 2010, but I think the project has been shelved. The city URL for west village doesn't even work anymore.

Interesting to note that they planned on making Bow Trail (aligned as 8th and 9th Ave) something like Robson in Vancouver, and adding a traffic circle in the middle of 14th Street for I don't know why. This would have killed all west exits out of downtown.

[lasimmon]

Originally posted by killramos


Who said anything about housing?

I think a big concern will be putting that many billions of development dollars into a flood plane again...

Maybe they can keep come million horsepower pumps on standby. Arena-on-stilsts?

Well considering the area wasn't even close to being flooded by last years floods I think they will be ok.

[mr2mike]

Can't see this going anywhere that's decently far away from the LRT. Access in and out of the current facility is crappy at best. Add in a walk to public transit, more will drive and Nenshi can dream people ride bikes to Flames games.

I could realistically see some sort of partnership with the UofC to redevelop all the land by McMahon. Get in an excellent hockey and football facility with stacked parking structure and a better, indoor bridge to the Ctrain.

[rage2]

Far from LRT? The Sunalta station is right there. I figured they had that station elevated just so they can tie it right back into the new arena.

You're right about access in and out of the area (for cars). Realistically, it's impossible to get 5,000 vehicles in and out of an area in a short time regardless of where you go. It's way worse in this area right now because of the Crowchild gongshow. The CRLP did a analysis of season ticket holders and postal codes, and the majority are in the west (NW, W, SW) side of the city, so traffic leaving games will primarily be via Bow/Crowchild. That NEEDS to be fixed before any arena can go in.

[lasimmon]

As someone who uses the Sunalta LRT station every day... It will be such a gongshow in and out of that station after and before games.

[ExtraSlow]

I don't get why they can't put it over there. Close to existing location, big area of land. Get rid of the bus barns and bam, room for even the largest NHL stadium.
Only a couple blocks from two difference c-train stations as well.

[suntan]

I have to say that Jason Markusoff is a terrible, terrible writer. He actually seems to be getting worse as time goes on.

[killramos]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
I don't get why they can't put it over there. Close to existing location, big area of land. Get rid of the bus barns and bam, room for even the largest NHL stadium.
Only a couple blocks from two difference c-train stations as well.

I dont think anyone disagrees with you. I think they are both viable and its a way to "spread the wealth" around downtown by putting in the west village so to speak. That part of downtown is a dump .

[rage2]

They can't build there because that's now Stampede land, at least up to 11th or 12th Ave there. They're trying to get out of Stampede grounds so they can make more money, one of the key reasons for a new arena.

[Tik-Tok]

So if they actually moved, I assume Stampede wouldn't tear down the Saddledome... I wonder if having two large competing venues like that would cut down ticket prices to concerts...

[rage2]

Stampede would definitely tear down the Saddledome. They will go bankrupt trying to maintain it.

From my understanding, the building is owned by City of Calgary, leased to the Stampede, and subleased to the Flames who are responsible for full maintenance of the building for cheaper rent.

The Stampede, being the middle man, makes a ton of money on everything else there while having to do no work, and the Flames want in on that action.

What I can't remember is how much the Stampede makes off the Dome, if it's all concerts, or just the Stampede concerts or what.

The City of Calgary will also lose a big piece of revenue stream (which means our taxes go up) if the dome is gone and the new arena is completely private.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[rage2]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
.....And what is wrong with the saddle dome exactly?

It's a piece of shit compared to modern venues. And I had to drive to Edmonton for Metallica's Through the Never filming concert because their stage doesn't fit. I've been to a bunch of games in Van, and I don't have a problem with missing any hockey if I have to go take a piss and get some food in between periods. The lineups are terrible at the dome because of how things are designed.

In the eyes of the Flames though, it doesn't have enough luxury suites, they make less money off it because of CoC and Stampede ties, so it's all about generating more money for themselves.

[HiTempguy1]

Its working out great for us in Edmonton... with our losing team that can't even fill all the seats... not

I've never understood how a city can possibly think this is a good idea unless they are paid back in full for their investment.

[Sugarphreak]

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