2022 f1

[rage2]

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What's inconsistent about the Russel penalty? Checo was ahead, left Russel room, and Russel still hit him. That's textbook application of a penalty they said they would be monitoring very closely this year.

This whole penalty mess was my big take away this race. Literally every driver penalized for causing a collision in this manner, their 5 second penalty was completely irrelevant. Whether someone thinks Checo should have made that pass or not is irrelevant in this discussion. Checo followed the rules, got taken out and his race was a DNF because of it. Russel goes on and likely missed the 3rd place podium because of the penalty, but still walked away with 4th place points. I don't know what they need to do to resolve this? But there certainly needs to be something done to fix a rule issue that specifically benefits a driver for causing a collision.

Both drivers left each other room. They went for the same piece of track in between that space. That by definition is a racing incident. You penalize that, and there’s no racing. That and they don’t typically penalize lap 1 incidents. That’s the inconsistency.

If Perez went wide to the edge of the track and they collided, then that would be a penalty. The contact was on the inside of the corner, a corner that’s bad news every single time the outside driver goes in tight and leave minimal room.

Other inconsistent shit from the weekend, as I mentioned Albon Vettel which was similar to Russell Perez but not lap 1. Max was runnign Leclerc wide off the track but that got a pass cuz it’s lap 1. As a driver you have no idea what’s allowed and what’s not.

[davidI]

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Both drivers left each other room. They went for the same piece of track in between that space.

Except that Perez was ahead and Russell could have avoided it by either turning in more and using the track on the inside or, assuming he had locked out the steering, slowed down to make the inside of the corner rather than being 3-foot off the curb and smashing into the car in front.

To me, this front left to competitor's rear right is the standard Mercedes PIT maneuver that Hamilton has been using to win WDCs the last decade. Unfortunately, a 5-second penalty will never make up for spinning your competitor off track in a high speed corner.

Albon got a 5-second penalty for going wide on Norris but at least it wasn't a DNF for Norris.

[Misterman]

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Both drivers left each other room. They went for the same piece of track in between that space. That by definition is a racing incident. You penalize that, and there’s no racing. That and they don’t typically penalize lap 1 incidents. That’s the inconsistency.

If Perez went wide to the edge of the track and they collided, then that would be a penalty. The contact was on the inside of the corner, a corner that’s bad news every single time the outside driver goes in tight and leave minimal room.

Other inconsistent shit from the weekend, as I mentioned Albon Vettel which was similar to Russell Perez but not lap 1. Max was runnign Leclerc wide off the track but that got a pass cuz it’s lap 1. As a driver you have no idea what’s allowed and what’s not.

Their justification for the punishment on lap 1, is that it didn't meet the criteria of a lap 1 incident. It wasn't 6 cars trying to fit through the same corner resulting in an incident, it was 2 cars racing and one of them breaking the rules. But yes, I can see how that could be confusing for the drivers. Either way, my gripe is that the lap number shouldn't matter, you should never be shunting a car off the track when the attacker has bested you and left you space. And if you do, there needs to be a penalty system to coincide with what has happened to the opponents race. I don't think Russel did this specific instance on purpose, you could clearly see the understeer, but none the less he did take Perez out of the race.

Perez DID go wide to the edge of the track, not sure what footage you are seeing otherwise on? I went and reviewed just to make sure after reading your comments, because I didn't remember it the way you described things. Turned out my memory was correct based on any footage I looked at.

[rage2]

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Their justification for the punishment on lap 1, is that it didn't meet the criteria of a lap 1 incident. It wasn't 6 cars trying to fit through the same corner resulting in an incident, it was 2 cars racing and one of them breaking the rules. But yes, I can see how that could be confusing for the drivers. Either way, my gripe is that the lap number shouldn't matter, you should never be shunting a car off the track when the attacker has bested you and left you space. And if you do, there needs to be a penalty system to coincide with what has happened to the opponents race. I don't think Russel did this specific instance on purpose, you could clearly see the understeer, but none the less he did take Perez out of the race.

Perez DID go wide to the edge of the track, not sure what footage you are seeing otherwise on? I went and reviewed just to make sure after reading your comments, because I didn't remember it the way you described things. Turned out my memory was correct based on any footage I looked at.

Sure, he went wide after he was hit lol. I mean I’m not sure what you’re seeing, he was in the middle of the corner when he was hit.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/a...GNp6zzt9d.html

Pretty sure I’m being trolled here.

[Misterman]

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Sure, he went wide after he was hit lol. I mean I’m not sure what you’re seeing, he was in the middle of the corner when he was hit.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/a...GNp6zzt9d.html

Pretty sure I’m being trolled here.

He took the corner and was heading wide directly for the curb, then george slides out wider than Checo's trajectory and hits him. Your footage actually shows it much better than what I had to review. I don't know why F1 pulls all their clips off Youtube after a few hours?

Matter of context maybe? This isn't the first incident where you've given no consideration to drivers trajectory. I think that is just the way you tend to examine incidents?

In any sense, Checo left Russel more than adequate room, Russel still hit him, FIA applied the penalty correctly. But Checo is DNF now and the penalty does nothing to rectify the incident.

[rage2]

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He took the corner and was heading wide directly for the curb, then george slides out wider than Checo's trajectory and hits him. Your footage actually shows it much better than what I had to review. I don't know why F1 pulls all their clips off Youtube after a few hours?

Matter of context maybe? This isn't the first incident where you've given no consideration to drivers trajectory. I think that is just the way you tend to examine incidents?

In any sense, Checo left Russel more than adequate room, Russel still hit him, FIA applied the penalty correctly. But Checo is DNF now and the penalty does nothing to rectify the incident.

Uhh, every pass on the outside, your trajectory will end up on the outside. Unless you like scrubbing off speed and a shitty driver.

Fact is he was going wheel to wheel with someone and gave minimal room on the inside. The car on the inside ain’t gonna magically disappear and has just as much right to the middle of the track as the guy on the outside as long as he leaves enough room on the outside of the track. It seems like your idea of wheel to wheel racing is whomever is ahead gets the whole track to themselves. That’s not how it works.

Same corner, gasly vettel.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/v...258278568.html

Vettel drove as wide as possible, gasly still hit him. That’s a penalty. At a minimum, Perez should’ve stayed wide, but it’s still a massive risk no different than Hamilton taking out Albon same corner same wide line by Albon while Hamilton gave zero room and took him out. Penalty deserved there.

Even RBR bosses disagree with you and literally told Perez not to pass on that corner on the outside because it never works.

[Misterman]

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Uhh, every pass on the outside, your trajectory will end up on the outside. Unless you like scrubbing off speed and a shitty driver.

Fact is he was going wheel to wheel with someone and gave minimal room on the inside. The car on the inside ain’t gonna magically disappear and has just as much right to the middle of the track as the guy on the outside as long as he leaves enough room on the outside of the track. It seems like your idea of wheel to wheel racing is whomever is ahead gets the whole track to themselves. That’s not how it works.

Same corner, gasly vettel.

https://www.formula1.com/en/latest/v...258278568.html

Vettel drove as wide as possible, gasly still hit him. That’s a penalty. At a minimum, Perez should’ve stayed wide, but it’s still a massive risk no different than Hamilton taking out Albon same corner same wide line by Albon while Hamilton gave zero room and took him out. Penalty deserved there.

Even RBR bosses disagree with you and literally told Perez not to pass on that corner on the outside because it never works.

Yes there was a number of other incidents that caused the same issue. So it's definitely a problem that needs addressing.

[rage2]

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Yes there was a number of other incidents that caused the same issue. So it's definitely a problem that needs addressing.

It’s a corner where it’s risky. I’m not sure what there is to fix. You can’t expect every corner to be a easy outside passing opportunity.

Here’s turn 4, where max was caught napping and ended up on the outside.



Max could’ve went for a defense to make a point (and risk getting taken out), but he smartly backed out because leclerc was going to get him eventually anyways. You’re always going to get bullied on the outside there. Protect the inside, or back out and live to fight another lap.

[TurboMedic]

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Fact is he was going wheel to wheel with someone and gave minimal room on the inside. The car on the inside ain’t gonna magically disappear and has just as much right to the middle of the track as the guy on the outside as long as he leaves enough room on the outside of the track. It seems like your idea of wheel to wheel racing is whomever is ahead gets the whole track to themselves. That’s not how it works.

This is cute, considering your (and so many other lulu fans) stance on Verstappen being on the inside is the exact opposite and crying foul every single time .

[killramos]

Rage is a Lewis fan?

[rage2]

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Rage is a Lewis fan?

I was when he drove for mclaren.

I’d like @TurboMedic to cite examples. Unless he’s talking about max on the inside running others off the road last year, which yea I have a problem with.

[TurboMedic]

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Rage is a Lewis fan?

I can see how what I wrote was grouping him in there, that wasn't the intention.....It was rage + lulu fans

[redline]

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I can see how what I wrote was grouping him in there, that wasn't the intention.....It was rage + lulu fans

I think of rage2 as rabid Benz fanboi over a lulu fanboi

[Misterman]

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It’s a corner where it’s risky. I’m not sure what there is to fix. You can’t expect every corner to be a easy outside passing opportunity.

Here’s turn 4, where max was caught napping and ended up on the outside.



Max could’ve went for a defense to make a point (and risk getting taken out), but he smartly backed out because leclerc was going to get him eventually anyways. You’re always going to get bullied on the outside there. Protect the inside, or back out and live to fight another lap.

Another blocked video.

Yeah I get there is some nuances to this specific corner in Austria. As per my original comment, I was more focused on the rules themselves and the penalty system in general, this corner just really highlighted the issue as so many drivers were affected by it this race. I don't know what the solution is either, but just expecting drivers not to make any outside passes seems as problematic as expecting everyone to just hard defend the inside and use an accident as a way to avoid your opponent making the outside pass.

[rage2]

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Another blocked video.

Yeah I get there is some nuances to this specific corner in Austria. As per my original comment, I was more focused on the rules themselves and the penalty system in general, this corner just really highlighted the issue as so many drivers were affected by it this race. I don't know what the solution is either, but just expecting drivers not to make any outside passes seems as problematic as expecting everyone to just hard defend the inside and use an accident as a way to avoid your opponent making the outside pass.

Consistency. That’s the answer. They publish basically a set of rules of engagement for passing, and they still randomly penalize. It’s hard to race when drivers can’t make risk assessments of situations properly because they can’t predict the stewards mood.

[OTown]

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What's inconsistent about the Russel penalty? Checo was ahead, left Russel room, and Russel still hit him. That's textbook application of a penalty they said they would be monitoring very closely this year.

This whole penalty mess was my big take away this race. Literally every driver penalized for causing a collision in this manner, their 5 second penalty was completely irrelevant. Whether someone thinks Checo should have made that pass or not is irrelevant in this discussion. Checo followed the rules, got taken out and his race was a DNF because of it. Russel goes on and likely missed the 3rd place podium because of the penalty, but still walked away with 4th place points. I don't know what they need to do to resolve this? But there certainly needs to be something done to fix a rule issue that specifically benefits a driver for causing a collision.

Agreed. If anything a 5 second penalty was way too lenient. Seemed like a copy of copse 2021, minus the high speed. Understeer into your opponent's car. Either way it absolutely ruined checos race and the penalty did very little to George's

[sexualbanana]

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Agreed. If anything a 5 second penalty was way too lenient. Seemed like a copy of copse 2021, minus the high speed. Understeer into your opponent's car. Either way it absolutely ruined checos race and the penalty did very little to George's

It depends on the car/constructor. A 5-sec penalty would've been detrimental to Leclerc who had Max within that margin. I bet it was probably the same for many of the midfield and backmarkers (it's hard to tell because everyone up to and including P6 got lapped, so their stated times just say +1 lap), where a 5-sec penalty could've cost someone a couple points.

Similarly to Lewis and George, Max could've gotten a 5-sec penalty and it wouldn't really have affected his race at all because they had such a big time gap from those behind them.

All that is to say that you can't vary the penalty based on who it is. You say it's not fair that it didn't effect George's race, but neither is varying the time penalty based on the specific driver/car/constructor for the same penalty.

[shakalaka]

Man I know it's wishful thinking but I had a dream that Lulu came back from way behind and took this season's title's from the whiny monkey's hands. Haha.

[ThePenIsMightier]

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Man I know it's wishful thinking but I had a dream that Lulu came back from way behind and took this season's title's from the whiny monkey's hands. Haha.

Mentioning "monkey" when the subject mildly pertains to a black guy (somehow) means you just called a black guy a monkey and are a criminal hate crimer. You're the worst person ever in the history of Zhmuzher Earth! 1!!1!! *Whatever pronoun the inanimate earth prefers...
It might not sound being worse than a tortfeasor, but it definitely is.

[shakalaka]

Lol everybody knows I am referring to Crytappen when I say 'monkey'.