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Thread: Alberta 2019 Provincial Election

  1. #921
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    Quote Originally Posted by codetrap View Post
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    I will wander in occasionally. I would also like to point out that I never ever said there wasn't waste. There absolutely is.

    However, I find it amusing when people just assume they can reduce the budge of AHS by 20% by finding management efficiencies. AHS spends 3.6% on administration. Translate that into staff, and there is 3.3% of the workforce are management. That's a management ratio of 1 manager to 30 staff. So, of the 102000 actual AHS employees, that's roughly 3200 managers. Since AHS has a budget of $14.7B. (not 21B like the news like to report), that 20% would account for $2.9B. If you think that shitcanning 3.3% of the staff will save you almost $3B, then you're just stupid.

    So, since about 55% of the budget is nurses... who ARE unionized, there's fuck all you can do. The PC gov'ts signed those union agreements that allow the waste to happen, and nobody has the power or the will to change it. If you think you can go and cut out Nurses.. then go for it. When they strike en masse and people start to die then well.. too bad I guess? When you add in what AHS pays to Covenant (on top of what GoA pays them directly) and doctors. That increases to 70% of the budget.

    But wait, there's more. AHS manages roughly 780 health related locations around the province. But remember Covenant Health? A Catholic Health Entity that is *sort of* separate? They have an annual budge of almost a billion dollars, and they manage 17 facilities with 11,000 employees. The best part? AHS has to provide services for those facilities like IT, laundry, staff, EMS.. all the standard services. They're run by Patrick Dumelie. The public sectors highest paid CEO. (over $800k in his best year). Dozens of nurses in Covenant are paid higher than the highest paid staff in AHS.. but it's a *private corporation* so there's no accountability.

    Coles notes... I never said there wasn't waste. I generally said something along the lines of, good luck trying to stop it. The waste is written into contracts that were signed by the PCs and enforced by the Unions..

    Full Disclosure.. I'm not a union position. I fall into the 3.6%, as does a reasonable chunk of IT being professionals. That's the chunk that hasn't seen a wage increase in 11 years. You won't find my name on a sunshine list. I do see waste in IT in the union side, but there's literally nothing we can do about it. The cost of getting rid of them is higher than the cost of keeping them and just making the best of it.
    If you could put a number to the percentage of patients utilizing the system that do not require it, like mothers bringing their kid to emergency for the sniffles. Then implement a measure to prevent that kind of resource waste, like a 100$ usage fee for emergency or something. You'd cut a pile of waste from the system right there. But nobody has the sack to implement any meaningful change like this.

  2. #922
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    Quote Originally Posted by HiTempguy1 View Post
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    Honest question, do you think electronic is superior, and why?

    Personally... I think this is as good as it gets. Paper with a sharpie is hard to fudge, you have to show up, in person, with ID to vote (or quite a bit of paperwork to support who you are and where you live).

    I mean, we don't NEED quicker results. We basically know in under a week.

    I don't think the costs of the election would be drastically different either with one or the other. There are HUGE security risks with electronic that are just too damn high, and its much easier to hide electrons than it is a paper trail when actual electoral fraud occurs.
    How strict is security with paper voting though? What is in place to prevent some poll worker from stuffing a bunch of pre checked ballots in the box, and then just scratching off a pile of the names from the 2/3's of voters that don't go vote? Or what security measure prevents someone counting ballots, from just throwing away ballots for a vote they don't like?

    Serious question as I have never worked a poll and have no idea on their security. Based on outside ignorant perspective it seems like it would easier to keep things secure with some sort of electronic system vs the stone age paper ballots we still use.

  3. #923
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    Imo premiums needs to come back for anyone who has not lived in Alberta for 5 years. Or at least contributed to tax pool for a few years.

  4. #924
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    Quote Originally Posted by LilDrunkenSmurf View Post
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    I needed my voter card
    Well yes, or THAT specifically (it is ID for this situation). Pretty hard to steal or fake a voter card. Possible? Yes. Likely? No.

    If you do not have your voter card, you either need AB DL or two pieces of other identification. There is actually a sheet you are supposed to fillout which is basically a declaration you are who you say you are source: I did this in the 2015 election. Maybe its changed.

    Point is, I think any mention of voter fraud is overblown in most situations, and I certainly do not think electronic is any more secure.

  5. #925
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    There has to be a way to make electronic voting feasible and secure. Blockchain might be a good technology to use for something like this so that a vote can't be altered after it's made. Link it to everyone's SIN and a notification after your vote is done (email/phone/text).

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    The problem with electronic voting is the perception that it’s a black box that laymen don’t understand.

    Piece of paper that can be physically checked. Everyone understands that.
    Originally posted by Thales of Miletus

    If you think I have been trying to present myself as intellectually superior, then you truly are a dimwit.
    Originally posted by Toma
    fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yolobimmer View Post
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    guessing who I might be, psychologizing me with your non existent degree.

  7. #927
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    Quote Originally Posted by suntan View Post
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    You don't see the parallel. Alright, you're in IT, and so I guess I should expect your business acumen to be near zero.

    NDP did nothing about Covenant Health. So what's your point again?
    Wow.. you're so pretty.

    "We need a vaccination for stupidity, with booster shots against an unwillingness to learn."

  8. #928
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    Quote Originally Posted by killramos View Post
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    The problem with electronic voting is the perception that it’s a black box that laymen don’t understand.

    Piece of paper that can be physically checked. Everyone understands that.
    "I don't trust voting machines, they could be hacked!"

    Meanwhile in Russia...


  9. #929
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    To think that electronic voting would be any less secure than paper is downright comical. Countless (hundreds of billions? trillions?) dollars change hands digitally, and if we can keep that system securely going (for the most part), surely we can secure a piddly little Canadian provincial election.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HiTempguy1 View Post
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    Well yes, or THAT specifically (it is ID for this situation). Pretty hard to steal or fake a voter card. Possible? Yes. Likely? No.

    If you do not have your voter card, you either need AB DL or two pieces of other identification. There is actually a sheet you are supposed to fillout which is basically a declaration you are who you say you are source: I did this in the 2015 election. Maybe its changed.

    Point is, I think any mention of voter fraud is overblown in most situations, and I certainly do not think electronic is any more secure.
    Didn't have a voter card and hadn't updated my address yet on my DL. They accepted a receipt from Amazon with my name and ANY shipping address on it. Definitely room for abuse in this especially in ridings that are a close race.

  11. #931
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    They didn't check my ID. I handed the person the voter card and I was asked to confirm the name and address which is on the card, bullet proof!

  12. #932
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    Quote Originally Posted by killramos View Post
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    The problem with electronic voting is the perception that it’s a black box that laymen don’t understand.

    Piece of paper that can be physically checked. Everyone understands that.
    Bingo. I can only see blockchain tech be the only one that could be good for digital election. Because the transaction is distributed to all votes and can be independently verified.

    But still, I think only 20% of the people will understand the tech. Paper is still cheaper and superior for audits because you only need to know how to count.

    Quote Originally Posted by lilmira View Post
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    They didn't check my ID. I handed the person the voter card and I was asked to confirm the name and address which is on the card, bullet proof!
    There will always be fraud, the more complicated the system, the more like and higher percentage of fraud. This one requires you to physically steal mail.

    Of course, a parent can take adult children's voter reg and vote whichever way they like.

    And if you have adult children at home, chances are you will be voting UCP.
    Last edited by Xtrema; 04-15-2019 at 12:02 PM.

  13. #933
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjblair View Post
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    To think that electronic voting would be any less secure than paper is downright comical. Countless (hundreds of billions? trillions?) dollars change hands digitally, and if we can keep that system securely going (for the most part), surely we can secure a piddly little Canadian provincial election.
    You're forgetting the most important thing. This would be something that the government was trying to do. Pretty much a sure thing that they would bungle it

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    Quote Originally Posted by jltabot View Post
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    Didn't have a voter card and hadn't updated my address yet on my DL. They accepted a receipt from Amazon with my name and ANY shipping address on it. Definitely room for abuse in this especially in ridings that are a close race.
    Quote Originally Posted by lilmira View Post
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    They didn't check my ID. I handed the person the voter card and I was asked to confirm the name and address which is on the card, bullet proof!
    You do not need ID at all to vote. As long as you're already registered, you just have to tell them your name and address, and you're good to go. If you are not registered to vote, then you need ID. You can use a phone bill with your name and address as ID. It's purely the honor system.

    AFAIK, this all came about because poor people didn't have ID.
    Originally posted by SEANBANERJEE
    I have gone above and beyond what I should rightfully have to do to protect my good name

  15. #935
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    Quote Originally Posted by codetrap View Post
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    Wow.. you're so pretty.
    And you couldn't run a lemonade stand to save your life.

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    Quote Originally Posted by suntan View Post
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    And you couldn't run a lemonade stand to save your life.
    In what scenario would running a lemonade stand save someone's life?
    Quote Originally Posted by heavyfuel View Post
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    That's why I just say I have a 4" dick and lift weights to make up for it.
    Quote Originally Posted by 89coupe View Post
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    My car sounds like shit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LilDrunkenSmurf View Post
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    In what scenario would running a lemonade stand save someone's life?
    Probably still more effective per dollar spent than AHS.

    This is fun. Lol
    Originally posted by Thales of Miletus

    If you think I have been trying to present myself as intellectually superior, then you truly are a dimwit.
    Originally posted by Toma
    fact.
    Quote Originally Posted by Yolobimmer View Post
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    guessing who I might be, psychologizing me with your non existent degree.

  18. #938
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    Quote Originally Posted by LilDrunkenSmurf View Post
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    In what scenario would running a lemonade stand save someone's life?
    When you owe the mafia money and they put you in charge of a lemonade stand to work off your debt. They'll tell you that you have X number of days to make enough profit from selling lemonade to cover your debt and a hefty interest penalty, and if you don't make it in time then they'll kill you.

  19. #939
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    Quote Originally Posted by cjblair View Post
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    To think that electronic voting would be any less secure than paper is downright comical. Countless (hundreds of billions? trillions?) dollars change hands digitally, and if we can keep that system securely going (for the most part), surely we can secure a piddly little Canadian provincial election.
    https://www.zdnet.com/article/securi...d-source-code/

    You make it sound like just because SOMETHING hasn't happened doesn't mean it can't. You haven't actually provided an argument for why you think paper is less secure. What I have seen is the colossal cock-up that is electronic voting south of the border, whereas, as far as we know, its a non-issue up here with paper voting.

    What others are describing is nothing like my experience in 2015 when needing to provide some form of identification and signed paperwork, so they must have relaxed the rules or something has changed. End of the day, with people verifying who you are and the voter list being manually checked off for every person that comes through, I have a hard time imagining MASSIVE voter fraud is possible. Could it happen? Yes. Enough to change the election? Unlikely.

    If you have a secure way of electronically verifying voter lists, I'd love to hear it. The actual ballot itself is even less of an issue if it can be verified beforehand that someone already voted.

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    Banana Stand $$$$ > Lemonade Stand $
    Ultracrepidarian

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