A must watch for all you CNN watchers

[Mo Squared]

A lengthy, but well thought out and informative documentary on the ILLEGAL (under section 242 of the United Nations) occupation of Palestine by War Criminal State Israel.

I ask that all Beyonders who are active in the dicussion of the Middle East watch this. All Pro-Israeli members should also feel free to argue with the points made in this video, however, do have solid evidence to back up your claims. DO NOT post your feelings here, prove to me that the longest military occupation in history is right. Prove to me that the torture, and opression of humans is the correct way to solidfy Israel's place in the middle east. Prove to me that Palestinians had another way to stop Israel besides suicide bombings when Israel would not listen to diplomatic pleas by the single most powerful, and legitimate organization in the world the United Nations. Down with Israel!

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...=propaganda+pr


Favorite Quote: "Israel is fighting this battle on two fronts...One being the military...and the the other being a PR campaign in America, through the media, to ensure continued Israeli support of occupation in the middle east"

[01RedDX]

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[Mo Squared]

I don't belive I once said I was pro Egypt or Syria. My question to the forum was: "Why doesn't Israel end the occupation now? Why do they continue to blockade millions of palestinians, even though the 1967 war was over a LONG time ago?"

I am hardly against the reasons that Israel was formed. I am all for it. However, I do think that Israel now has no right to continue this occupation, especially after it has been voiced to be illegal.

Again I am not sure if you watched the documentary because you seem to twist the issue like the American media, and push the blame to other states, and continue to say that Israel is "protecting themselves." STOP doing that and just let me know why RIGHT NOW Israel cannot stop this occupation.

^^Please dont waste forum space by posting arguements that have nothing to do with the documentary and the question I posed. IF you are going to argue something, argue a point made by the documentary because otherwise it is harder for good debate to go on with useless text floating around such as that

[asuth077]

Originally posted by Mo Squared
^^Please dont waste forum space by posting arguements that have nothing to do with the documentary and the question I posed. IF you are going to argue something, argue a point made by the documentary because otherwise it is harder for good debate to go on with useless text floating around such as that

Useless text is a burdon!

such as....

Originally posted by Mo Squared
Down with Israel!

[01RedDX]

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[Evro]

Originally posted by Mo Squared

Favorite Quote: "Israel is fighting this battle on two fronts...One being the military...and the the other being a PR campaign in America, through the media, to ensure continued Israeli support of occupation in the middle east"

you should be posting google video on the very heavy propoganda used in most middle-eastern countries against israel, then you can debate whether or not the Israeli propoganda in america is justified

i dont understand the point of your quote, every nation uses propoganda especially in times of war and especially where they need support - im not pro israel or pro palestine but please if your going to post a thread about the situation in the middle east please dont make it so one-sided, there are already more than enough biased rants for both sides floating around the internet

[Mo Squared]

Still none of you pro-Israeli members have answered about why Israel have not agreed to remove occupation?

Anyone...or are you going to continue wasting time my bashing me? Please watch the documentary and COMMENT ON IT!

Thank you for your time

[Mo Squared]

Originally posted by Evro


you should be posting google video on the very heavy propoganda used in most middle-eastern countries against israel, then you can debate whether or not the Israeli propoganda in america is justified

i dont understand the point of your quote, every nation uses propoganda especially in times of war and especially where they need support - im not pro israel or pro palestine but please if your going to post a thread about the situation in the middle east please dont make it so one-sided, there are already more than enough biased rants for both sides floating around the internet

FINALLY a legitamite argument. Thank god there is someone on this forum who has half an education.

I agree, this video is one sided and yes I am sure there is propaganda all over the middle east in favor of Palestine. Agreed. However palestine is not engaging in a ILLEGAL INTERNATIONAL ACT and still trying to gain support. They are actually trapped in their homeland by a military that they have no chance to fight with. Israel is trying to gain support for something that is ILLEGAL, that is like stealing from a bank (oil and land), and trying to get the police (america) to support you?

[01RedDX]

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[Mo Squared]

Originally posted by 01RedDX


In the 90's Arafat was offered a deal to finally set up a Palestinian state with multibillion dollar economic incentives from many countries. Arafat rejected the deal because, as a dictator who had directed all his energies toward strengthening the Palestinians hatred toward Israel, Arafat could not afford to make peace. This is one of the reasons.

Another reason is the use of suicide bombings as a tool of resistance. They have killed thousands of Israelis in the last 5 years alone. This has resulted in the Israeli government taking its harshest measures ever to suppress the Palestinians.

If you acutally watched the link, the details behind the deal he was offered in the 90s were outlined. The deal was ridiculous! Palestinians were getting nothing! The land they were getting was going to be under Israeli control from the air and resource wise, it was a complete disregard to what the PLO was trying to achieve.

Are you saying that Arafat did not accept the deal because "Arafat could not afford to make peace." Funny thing is, that CNN was discredited on using that phrase in the 90s because it was not the reason he refused the deal. I guess you didn't watch the link. Or you just didn't take my advice of not posting your OPINIONS and only posting facts. Thanks

[foos_guy]

Can't say I've seen the entire video, as I'm at work. But I did find an interesting website with some interesting facts.

History of Palestine

[01RedDX]

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[Ceza]

Originally posted by 01RedDX


So are the Palestians any better off now? My OPINION is that they could have continued to pursue their goals within the framework of an independent state. Mahatma Ghandi liberated India from English rule through non-violent resistance. So don't tell me anything like "suicide bombing is all they can do."

[Mo Squared]

Originally posted by 01RedDX


So are the Palestians any better off now? My OPINION is that they could have continued to pursue their goals within the framework of an independent state. Mahatma Ghandi liberated India from English rule through non-violent resistance. So don't tell me anything like "suicide bombing is all they can do."

Lets compare apples to apples...In the case of Ghandi in India there was a movement to gain an independant state from a land that had been colonized. Secondly, the British never sanctioned off the Indians and left them to die in a corner of the country, they were free to move about. Third, there was a massive amount of killing and violence in India which prompted pressure on the British to allow a COLONY to become a independant state. Fourth, AGAIN the British were not there ILLEGALLY, they had colonial possesion of the land, they did not just take the land and shove the Indians off to the shittiest parts of the country to live. Lastly, and maybe the most important, the British never used fighter planes, and an army to control the population of India to the extent that Israel is right now.

For example, if you were in a fight with a person over say a very valuable hockey card, and the person goes ahead and pulls a gun on you, you would fight back with force (the case in Israel). If this person just continues to keep the hockey card because they found it first, but does not try to harm you, you can try to talk him into giving it to you...its much easier to establish negotiations when the people are willing to listen, rather than staring down a barrel of a gun

[Ceza]

^^^
people in general dont leave a desease alone, they try to find solutions.

as in desease, i mean anything that does harm to its people.

How come people were not argueing over the land up until 1948 when Israel declared statehood? were Muslims forced to leave their religions behind or something? were they gettin less treatment then the Jews living there? Arent there currently over a million jews in Israel?

Also, when an innocent Arab dies living in Israeli borders from a Hezbollah rocket, What does Hizbollah say about this? just an apology?

Someone fill me in..

[Mo Squared]

Originally posted by Ceza
^^^
people in general dont leave a desease alone, they try to find solutions.

as in desease, i mean anything that does harm to its people.

How come people were not argueing over the land up until 1948 when Israel declared statehood? were Muslims forced to leave their religions behind or something? were they gettin less treatment then the Jews living there? Arent there currently over a million jews in Israel?

Also, when an innocent Arab dies living in Israeli borders from a Hezbollah rocket, What does Hizbollah say about this? just an apology?

Someone fill me in..

Not sure if you are being sarcastic and trying to say that Israel has been welcoming of muslims? And also this has nothing to do with Jewish vs Muslims.

In case you really are an idiot and really need someone to fill you in on why palestinians are not in Israel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_exodus

Its called the exodus. Read up son before you post on here agreeing to what any person says as long as they throw in the word "ghandi"

[Xtrema]

But wasn't Israel fulfilling 242 before Hamas comes in and fuck it all up again? Wasn't Israel returning settlements and kicking their own people out?

Why does Hamas has to continue to provoke Israel when they are complying with UN?

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by Mo Squared
Not sure if you are being sarcastic and trying to say that Israel has been welcoming of muslims? And also this has nothing to do with Jewish vs Muslims.

In case you really are an idiot and really need someone to fill you in on why palestinians are not in Israel.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_exodus

Its called the exodus. Read up son before you post on here agreeing to what any person says as long as they throw in the word "ghandi"

If you want to quote Wiki, check this out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947_UN_Partition_Plan

Meeting in Cairo in November and December of 1947, the Arab League then adopted a series of resolutions aimed at a military solution to the conflict.

The short notes. The Arab league didn't like UN resolution 181 but unable to defeat it. So what do they do, military actions.

and the fuse is lit

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jerusalem_Riots_of_1947

The 1947 Jerusalem Riots occurred following the 1947 UN Partition Plan. The Arab Higher Committee declared a three-day strike and public protest to begin on December 2, 1947, in protest of the vote. Arabs marching to Zion Square on December 2 were stopped by the British, and the Arabs instead turned towards the commercial center of the City, burning many buildings and shops. Violence continued for two more days, with Arab mobs attacking a number of Jewish neighborhoods.

A consequence of the violence was the decision by the Haganah Jewish paramilitary organization to use force to "stop future attacks on Jews"

Here's the seed. Don't deny it or sugar coating it. If you accept UN being the end all and be all, Arabs should not fight back and comply. That's the nature of majority rule.

Failure to comply to 181 means all that come after it is just meaningless. So stop throwing 242 in our face. Both side has defied UN resolutions they didn't like. So did many countries. UN resolutions at best is just a suggestion. Legality is enforce by ones with the biggest guns.

[Mo Squared]

Originally posted by Xtrema


If you want to quote Wiki, check this out:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1947_UN_Partition_Plan



The short notes. The Arab league didn't like UN resolution 181 but unable to defeat it. So what do they do, military actions.

Here's the seed. Don't deny it or sugar coating it. If you accept UN being the end all and be all, Arabs should not fight back.

Failure to comply to 181 means all that come after it is just meaningless. So stop throwing 242 in our face. Both side has defied UN resolutions they didn't like. So did many countries. UN resolutions at best is just a suggestion. Legality is enforce by ones with the biggest guns.

Agreed, the UN resolution is not the final say, and also Arab nations are at fault in many ways. I have not once said that Syria and Egypt and other nations are not at fault. My point here is that the Arab nations made that mistake of not listening, so why not be teh first and agree to give palestine an independant state, or AT LEAST remove Israeli military presence in Gaza and the West Bank. Why doesn't Israel be the first in the peace making process? There is a bigger agenda there.


And to comment on the other note. Hamas acted against Palestinian leaders wishes. After the settlements in Gaza were being moved, the condemned the actions of Hamas. Please do not blame innocent palestinians for the actions of a terrorist group, that is just as good as saying that all muslims in the world are responsible for Al-Queda.

As for 181. The palestinians did not agree to it, and NEITHER DID the Israelis. Think about this. The Arabs owned ALL of that land, and suddenly they lost over 60% of it to a jewish state of Israel, including one of the most Holy cities in their religion. Of course at that time they were furious, they expected that most of the land would be given to the Arabs. As time progressed they realised that they were not getting all the land, and now they cannot even live in the small areas of Gaza and the West Bank without military occupation? From your wiki link you can see that before Israel gained support, and eventually took over land that was NOT theirs, Arbab nations controlled more than three quarters of that country. Is it fair that it all be taken away? Come on, of course they werent going to agree to 181. 242 was completly different, that was a resolution that was to demilitarize civilian areas! How can Israel not agree to that?

[01RedDX]

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