kioto is bs - i'd rather plant trees

[riceeater]

I hear a lot of bullshit about how we should cut emissions and destroy our economy, and how we should send billions to other countries for HOT AIR. Asside from this garbage, everyone just bitches and condones others, but no one is suggesting anything, except for the oil industry who is actually suggesting carbon trapping, and is investing into that... pretty shitty when they're the only ones doing something...

I think Kioto is the biggest crock of shit either, but thats a whole argument in itself... Instead, what i was thinking is, instead of us pissing money away for CREDITS, or spending all of our money on research, we should just plant trees everywhere...

i'm serious... you can easily calculate how much CO2 a tree takes in a year, so make companies, and people and everyone that doesnt meet whatever targets we impose, to just spend money on planting trees.... Instead of say sending 3Billion a year in credits, plant that amount in trees... that'll actually do something useful, and it's not like we are suffering land shortages....


my other idea is that instead of giving subsidy to farmers, we should still subsidize them, but the ones that choose to get more, would allow the government to use a corner of their land to prop up a wind power plant... last summer when i flew over europe, i was stunned... in some places, every other farmer had a windmill on his land, it was insane... we have constant winds here in alberta, and our farmers need help... lets give them money, and cut our emissions at the same time... why is there no talk about stuff like this?

why is that little bitch DR suzuki running his big mouth bitching all the time, and not suggesting one useful solution

[black_radiation]

1. Kyoto
2. I completely agree.

I lived on a farm for several years of my life with my grandparents. they own one just outside of longview and the winds there are incredible, they can easily hit 90-110kmh, some days i would go outside and get blown over just trying to get into my car as we lived just off of the foothills.

They had signed a form stating they would be happy to put windmill's on their land but they were never contacted about it. I mean it takes up maybe 400 sq feet, thats so minimal comparitively to the amount of land that most farmers have... i mean we all know it, the governments of the world are stupid...

[riceeater]

Actually, the evil alberta conservatives HAVE made some progress in the area... mainly, they are now talking about adopting power meters that go back and forth... so if you generate your own power, the excess goes back into the grid, and you actually get credit for that... I think if the incentives are worth while, some people might actually start investing in wind, solar, whatever to create energy and sell to the system. THAT would be wicked

[Primer_Drift]

Ah man Suzuki is the biggest asshole.. don't get me started on that goddamn hypocrite.

[eb0i]

Originally posted by Primer_Drift
Ah man Suzuki is the biggest asshole.. don't get me started on that goddamn hypocrite.

I wonder if Suzuki even knows the difference between science and politics anymore.

[Xtrema]

Windmills are ugly. So I hope they set out a zone that's prohibit them (pretty much west of Calgary)

The economics of wind power is starting to make sense here. Love to see more of it as long as it doesn't destroy the scenery.

Kyoto doesn't work because it exclude China/Russia/India. I don't consider them developing countries and should be included due to they actually host 1/2 the world's population and do their fair share of CO2 emission.

[rage2]

Assuming that global warming is a real issue caused by CO2 emissions and not solar activity/general earth cooling/heating trends, Kyoto is the wrong solution. Kyoto is a thinly disguised wealth redistrubution program wrapped around a hot politcal issue (global warming). Countries that are among the top worse offenders for CO2 emissions gets a free pass on emissions, free cash, and the proposed changes (assuming growth in developing countries) means that Kyoto will only effectively knock down worldwide CO2 by under 10%. Meaning it'll do jack shit while we fund underdeveloped countries.

But really, how real is global warming? IMO, we're not at a level where we can accurate predict climate change yet... hell we can't even predict the weather in Calgary accurately. We've made the mistake before:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_cooling

And we could be wrong now, but with politicians, celebreties and everyone else pushing the agenda, it's hard to filter out what's the truth in the large amounts of information that's being forced down our throats. And if we ARE wrong, it would be one of the largest economical wastes in history.

[trikypenguin]

hahahaha i almost ran david suzuki over when he was at the paliser hotel, he was up in our valet area and popped out from between 2 cars as i was goin by and had to slam on the brakes

[black_radiation]

Originally posted by trikypenguin
hahahaha i almost ran david suzuki over when he was at the paliser hotel, he was up in our valet area and popped out from between 2 cars as i was goin by and had to slam on the brakes

too bad ur instincts took over... u obviously missed lol

[Primer_Drift]

Originally posted by trikypenguin
hahahaha i almost ran david suzuki over when he was at the paliser hotel, he was up in our valet area and popped out from between 2 cars as i was goin by and had to slam on the brakes

Yeah he was obviously looking for his bicycle, because he doesn't drive cars, not even electric ones. The only pollution he contributes is his flatulance.. which according to him, doesn't stink.

[jay42w8]

NOT TRUE!...back in 2002-2003ish...I worked a block away from David Suzuki's office in Vancouver on W. Broadway...the guy was driving a freakin 1995 ish Mazda 929 Serenia...for any of u youngins who dont know what this vehicle is...it was Mazda's flagship sedan in the early to mid 90's...it was like a boat

[riceeater]

ok ok, lets leave suzuki out of this... he's not even worth the web traffic

how about planting trees though? we can all do it... you know how the city makes all houses have one tree in the front? make it three! why the hell not... what's another couple hundred bucks on a 350K+ house.

instead of having a polution tax for V8s, make those people plant a couple trees... seriously, we planted 10 trees at our new house, and we put 40 more at my mom's bf's acreage... i dont feel at all bad about driving my SRT4 with no catalytic converter and the horrible gas milleage, i feel like i'm doing my part

[Q-TIP]

Originally posted by rage2
Assuming that global warming is a real issue caused by CO2 emissions and not solar activity/general earth cooling/heating trends, Kyoto is the wrong solution. Kyoto is a thinly disguised wealth redistrubution program wrapped around a hot politcal issue (global warming). Countries that are among the top worse offenders for CO2 emissions gets a free pass on emissions, free cash, and the proposed changes (assuming growth in developing countries) means that Kyoto will only effectively knock down worldwide CO2 by under 10%. Meaning it'll do jack shit while we fund underdeveloped countries.

But really, how real is global warming? IMO, we're not at a level where we can accurate predict climate change yet... hell we can't even predict the weather in Calgary accurately. We've made the mistake before:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_cooling

And we could be wrong now, but with politicians, celebreties and everyone else pushing the agenda, it's hard to filter out what's the truth in the large amounts of information that's being forced down our throats. And if we ARE wrong, it would be one of the largest economical wastes in history.

first off, predicting the weather is much more difficult than predicting global climate trends. a general warming pattern is much easier to model than are small local fluctuations in pressure systems because those local systems very often undergo extremely random interactions with terrestrial features and other systems.

secondly, we ARE at a point where we are seeing warming trends that were not present up until the early 1970's. There is NO debate in any scientific circle that is not directly on the payroll of any major energy company that this is true. Even then they agree that our world is warming, they just try to introduce doubt into our level of participation in the changes. While NOBODY can say 100% for sure that we are the cause of warming, it is equally true that NOBODY can say 100% for certain that we are not. Furthermore in all peer-reviewed works on the topic, it is generally accepted that we are at least playing some role in warming.

Believe it or not, this information was not gleaned from Al Gore's movie, I independantly researched the topic myself a few years back and I am currently in very close cooperation with a glaciologist (Dr. Osborne) at the U of C. Without a doubt, many of the ice cores that he has recovered show that there is a relatively out of character spike in CO2 content in the atmosphere as well as a notable jump in global MAT (mean average temps).

Also, this January the global recorded MAT was 0.85 degrees Kelvin (or celcius, same unit, different starting point) higher than the historical global average since the end of the pleistocene glaciation 13 000 years ago. It is also the highest on record by 0.14 degrees, beating the record set in 2002 of 0.71 degrees above average. These may seem like small numbers, but on the global scale these numbers are huge.

Suzuki is a hypocrytcal asshat that should shut up before people completely tune him out. Al Gore should also maybe park the private jet, because i can tell you that burns more fuel per person than any vehicle on the road today, but the general message is good, and is based on sound repeatable science.

While nothing is absolutely rock hard law, all evidence points to human involvement to some degree being a factor in the warming we are seeing today. Like i said, in the 13 000 years of the holocene, only NOW do we see a large spike in global temps, and while they have occured in the past, their coinciding with the beginning of mass usage of fossil fuels by only a few years in a span of 13 000 would seem a bit suspicious.

Kyoto may be have its economical motivations, however it is a starting point, and should be considered a launching platform for furture emissions reduction legislation on a global scale.

edited for math error

[riceeater]

^^^ same arguments we hear ALL THE TIME... everyone is too busy proving why THEY are right, but not proposing anything new

[TKRIS]

Alberta is already generating about as much electricity with wind power as the grid will allow.
Opinions vary on how much more we can add, some say possibly up to another 5% of our electricity can come from wind, but everyone agrees that we can't add too much more.

Wind is unreliable, and if it makes up too large a percentage of the total electricity on the power grid, we'll end up with unpredictable rolling blackouts and, possibly, massive power shortages.

Everyone rags on the U.S. for not adhering to Kyoto, but IMS, the U.S. is the only nation that has substancially cut emissions over the last few years.
Kyoto won't work for more reasons than I'd care to discuss.

I believe global warming is something that we need to start addressing. However, the best way to do that isn't by creating makework programs to make soccermoms and idealists feel warm and fuzzy.

Kris

[Q-TIP]

Originally posted by riceeater
^^^ same arguments we hear ALL THE TIME... everyone is too busy proving why THEY are right, but not proposing anything new

you know what, you can believe whatever makes you feel good at night. personally I would love for global warming to be an entirely natural occurance outside of human control, because then I would feel much better too.

before anything meaningful can be done about our current situation, the vast majority of people have to come to the consensus that something MUST be done. I won't argue this point further because no matter what i say, the ignorant, misinformed and the misinformers will not either listen to what is to be said, nor will they believe it when they hear it. such a shame it is that the warning signs fall on deaf ears because people are too concerned with changes in the current economy to see that a new green economy could be just as profitable if we put our minds to it.

and FYI, im a geologist in training, and very few occupations are as dependant as mine on the oil industry staying strong, oil companies still pay the best.

[riceeater]

Originally posted by Q-TIP


you know what, you can believe whatever makes you feel good at night. personally I would love for global warming to be an entirely natural occurance outside of human control, because then I would feel much better too.

before anything meaningful can be done about our current situation, the vast majority of people have to come to the consensus that something MUST be done. I won't argue this point further because no matter what i say, the ignorant, misinformed and the misinformers will not either listen to what is to be said, nor will they believe it when they hear it. such a shame it is that the warning signs fall on deaf ears because people are too concerned with changes in the current economy to see that a new green economy could be just as profitable if we put our minds to it.

and FYI, im a geologist in training, and very few occupations are as dependant as mine on the oil industry staying strong, oil companies still pay the best.

dude, no one is questioning your "science".... if you noticed i left a bunch of debateable issues undebated on purpose already... this isnt a thread for people to try to convince eachother, it's a thread about actually doing something about the warming... all i said was, as always, whenever we try to talk about solutions, have the peope will just keep contributing their wisdom, but wont suggest anything... so relax, no one is debating weather or not the world is heating up

[AzN'SKillZ]

http://news.scotsman.com/internation...?id=1792352006

SOLUTION!