Lawsuit accuses car industry of inflating prices

[Redlyne_mr2]

Auto manufacturers will just end up telling Canada to go screw itself.. alocation of anything decent up here will drop and the US will get all the good cars while we'll be left with grand caravans and corollas. Our market is nothing in the grand scheme of things, if anything its a burden on many of the manufacturers.

[autosm]

Among other things, the lawsuit alleges that the defendants reduced competition by:

* requiring buyers to agree not to export their vehicles
* failing to honour warranties in Canada if vehicles were bought in the U.S.
* threatening or penalizing dealers who failed to follow the automakers' rules



I know this is true .

If this is price fixing than they deserve to be held acountable

[kaput]

.

[phreezee]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
...however the prices are based on supply in demand. I'm not sure why they would go after dealers.. they arent the ones controlling the prices.

They are going after the manufacturers who set the MSRP and fine US dealers if they sell to Canadians and tell Canadian dealerships not to honour warranty, NOT the dealers themselves.

My feeling is that car prices aren't based on supply and demand. Granted allocations are less in Canada, but thats based on population and sales numbers. The majority of cars never "sell out," so I don't see how a Cavalier would cost $8000 more in Canada (using an example from above).

Car prices are based off of MSRP set by the manufacturers and in the US you will find a lot of dealerships selling for under MSRP, and here it happens far less often. This sort of thing could be considered supply and demand.
But since the MSRP is set 20-30% higher in Canada, I would deem this inflation.

[mark4091]

Originally posted by autosm
Let the market forces decide .

Cast your vote by buying in the USA . I for one am tired of being a second class society .You go just about anywhere in the US and no one drives POS cars .When you can buy a brand new Cavalier for $9000.00 Why not get a new car every 3 years ?

07 Maxima full load is 8k cheeper down there .Not to mention the gst saved on 8000.00$ pays for the travel .

Hyundai has a 10 year war down there and are 25% cheeper??

They say its because the cost of doing business in Canada is more . I am sure the car dealers in Alberta are having a hard time . T&T honda and country hills Toyota must be hurting ???????

I read that when our doller was @ 63c US .That year 2 million cars went to the USA from Canada . What do you think it did to our used car prices ? The prices were inflated . So not only did we pay more for new ,used were also more .

Cars just got 20% cheeper for us and used cars in the USA are even cheeper

350z 2006 with 8000miles for $22000.00

agreed.

[Subwoofah]

anyone going down to the states soon to pick up a car?

[jibber]

The only reason why I'm interested in this thread is because I work in the industry, at a very large GM dealership.

The car I just bought new I had to buy in Canada, because the vehicle isn't sold in the USA at all. (Yes the new smart is being sold in the States, so I will keep one eye on the prices on either side of the border for the smart 451)

[Redlyne_mr2]

Originally posted by kaput
If Canada was a burden on the manufacturers they wouldn't be producing and selling their vehicles here...

Many of them don't send up the same models up here that they do to the US.. we dont have Scion, we get way different models than the US... they have 4cyl dodge caravans.. we dont, they have fwd rx350.. we dont.. sooo many models we dont get up here. Mitsubishi is finally going to sell the EVO here but only because it just happened to pass bumper laws.. but they could give a shit wether it sells here or not.

[Hakkola]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2

Many of them don't send up the same models up here that they do to the US.. we dont have Scion, we get way different models than the US... they have 4cyl dodge caravans.. we dont, they have fwd rx350.. we dont.. sooo many models we dont get up here. Mitsubishi is finally going to sell the EVO here but only because it just happened to pass bumper laws.. but they could give a shit wether it sells here or not.

How is providing fewer choices a burden? It doesn't cost them anything to not sell a 4cyl dodge caravan here.

If they didn't give a shit if the evo sold here, they wouldn't sell it here. I'm not seeing the logic in your posts.

[Redlyne_mr2]

Originally posted by Hakkola



How is providing fewer choices a burden? It doesn't cost them anything to not sell a 4cyl dodge caravan here.

If they didn't give a shit if the evo sold here, they wouldn't sell it here. I'm not seeing the logic in your posts.

What's a burden is to provide more choice.. that's the point I was making.. sorry if it didnt make sense It's not worth it for many of these companies to sell certain vehicles up here. It is a burden to offere a 4cylinder Caravan because they have to put it through crash tests seperate from the V6, they have to put it through cold weather testing, install different alternators, install different weather stripping and larger heater cores. I have a friend who works for Mitsubishi Canada and what I heard was because the new evo was build to cater more to the American market, that everything on it was built larger and less aggressive than the previous Evo and that it was just by chance that it happened to pass Canadian bumper laws. How many Evos will they sell in Canada? A few hundred... thats a mall drop in the bucket.

[Skyline_Addict]

Originally posted by Subwoofah
anyone going down to the states soon to pick up a car?

*raise hand*

[Hakkola]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2

What's a burden is to provide more choice.. that's the point I was making.. sorry if it didnt make sense It's not worth it for many of these companies to sell certain vehicles up here. It is a burden to offere a 4cylinder Caravan because they have to put it through crash tests seperate from the V6, they have to put it through cold weather testing, install different alternators, install different weather stripping and larger heater cores. I have a friend who works for Mitsubishi Canada and what I heard was because the new evo was build to cater more to the American market, that everything on it was built larger and less aggressive than the previous Evo and that it was just by chance that it happened to pass Canadian bumper laws. How many Evos will they sell in Canada? A few hundred... thats a mall drop in the bucket.

I agree with you here, however that's a small example, and it barely costs them anything more to sell these cars in Canada comapred to the U.S. Cold weather testing is not done just for Canada, but also for the European continent, not to mention New York/michigan etc. where millions of people make their homes.

I can see how the price drop can cost the auto industry money, but it is price gouging, we ARE getting ripped off as Canadians. Do the dealerships in Canada have bigger profit margins in Canada? If not, the problem is the manufacturers gouging, and it's wrong. There is absolutely no reason why a 20 000USD car should be sold for 30 000 CAD right now, unless they completely redesigned the model for Canada only, and sell a different car in Canada. It is not like they need to put a new engine in a car because it is 1 degree colder in Toronto and Vancouver than it is in New York and Seattle.

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2

What's a burden is to provide more choice.. that's the point I was making.. sorry if it didnt make sense It's not worth it for many of these companies to sell certain vehicles up here. It is a burden to offere a 4cylinder Caravan because they have to put it through crash tests seperate from the V6, they have to put it through cold weather testing, install different alternators, install different weather stripping and larger heater cores. I have a friend who works for Mitsubishi Canada and what I heard was because the new evo was build to cater more to the American market, that everything on it was built larger and less aggressive than the previous Evo and that it was just by chance that it happened to pass Canadian bumper laws. How many Evos will they sell in Canada? A few hundred... thats a mall drop in the bucket.

LOL do you honestly read what you type? A burden to sell to Canada? Are these companies being forced to sell here? Not a chance. They do it because it's profitable and there are millions of potential high income families to compete for.

[autosm]

Raises hand

No one could have predicted the canadian doller going up so fast but its not joe publics fault that we want to take advantage of a good thing.

The Canadian wholesalers /retailers better wize up fast before they miss out on every one going south.

I say free extended warantees ,0% financing and a bunch of free options to get us to buy here.

They better do it fast before they miss out .


I just remembered somthing .In 02 I purchased a 1800$ car part in the USA .I paid for it with visa .When I got the visa statement it was 2950.$ Canadian . That was the worst feeling .

[Redlyne_mr2]

Originally posted by Weapon_R


LOL do you honestly read what you type? A burden to sell to Canada? Are these companies being forced to sell here? Not a chance. They do it because it's profitable and there are millions of potential high income families to compete for.

The point that I was trying to make is that our industry is sooooo small in comparison to the states. The lesser numbers sold means that the manufacturers have to jack the prices in order to be able to cover the cost of doing business in Canada. In the states the cost per vehicle sold for a manufacturer is much much less than the cost per vehicle sold in Canada. One of the many reasons for the difference.. I'm not saying the massive gap is justifiable however there are reasons for everything.

[SilverRex]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2

The point that I was trying to make is that our industry is sooooo small in comparison to the states. The lesser numbers sold means that the manufacturers have to jack the prices in order to be able to cover the cost of doing business in Canada. In the states the cost per vehicle sold for a manufacturer is much much less than the cost per vehicle sold in Canada. One of the many reasons for the difference.. I'm not saying the massive gap is justifiable however there are reasons for everything.

well if it is that difficult for dealerships in canada to sell cars without marking prices up, then so be it. shut down all dealership and open the border up, so that at least the US expects us to buy a car down there. we will just have to stick with the riv department and buy cars that are passable here in canada.

if dealership needs to survive, then they have to do something to reverse this south of the buying madness. I like the discount free warranty idea, or how bout the gov steping in with no GST? First lower the price like porsche did, then wavied the GST, add some incentives, free options. it will all add up, as long as they can get it down so the price difference is down to sa 5k for example. Then most will just buy here to save the hassle. 10-15k is way too much money to ignore, thats all.

Dealerships or people, we are all in for the money, the more money we make or the more money we save, we will do anything to make it happen.

This is more to do with how they run their business, sure, sell less but make up the cost on the price. But what about sell for less, but make it up by selling a lot.

How do u think US can sell for much less, they have alot of inventory.

[Skyline_Addict]

Whether there is a justifiable reason for the price difference or not, the market forces will determine the on-going outcome of the market. The fact of the matter is that a $20 000 difference in buying a Subaru WRX STi (my next car!), for example, will likely lead to Canadian consumers heading to south to save what is unarguably a huge chunk of change.
How can the manufacturers and Canadian automotive market expect sensible people to pay that much more for an identical product, when it isn't a far reach to import the exact same car from the states.

a)Sure, there is the burden of having to do all the paper work, fly/drive down to the states, get the car to suit Canadian regulations. If bought in Canada, you don't have to worry about any of those things obviously.

b)Yes, you don't get to build a relationship with your local dealership and get some of the perks that come with that.

c)And if you're that much into patriotism, then again yes, you won't be contributing to the Canadian economy (even if I was, I wouldn't care too much since I'm buying a Japanese product).



Are a) + b) + c) worth $20000 to me? Nope, not even close. Plus I'm far due for a vacation and really would enjoy the drive across the border .

[BigMass]

One lot in butt-fuck-nowhere California will have more STIs than in the whole of Canada. This not only forces better prices, it forces better service. I've stopped being mad about it and now just do what i can to buy whatever i can from the States. If the companies have the right to jack up prices and have awful service due to the demographics of Canada, then i have the right to not give them my business.

[Redlyne_mr2]

Originally posted by SilverRex



well if it is that difficult for dealerships in canada to sell cars without marking prices up, then so be it. shut down all dealership and open the border up, so that at least the US expects us to buy a car down there. we will just have to stick with the riv department and buy cars that are passable here in canada.

if dealership needs to survive, then they have to do something to reverse this south of the buying madness. I like the discount free warranty idea, or how bout the gov steping in with no GST? First lower the price like porsche did, then wavied the GST, add some incentives, free options. it will all add up, as long as they can get it down so the price difference is down to sa 5k for example. Then most will just buy here to save the hassle. 10-15k is way too much money to ignore, thats all.

Dealerships or people, we are all in for the money, the more money we make or the more money we save, we will do anything to make it happen.

This is more to do with how they run their business, sure, sell less but make up the cost on the price. But what about sell for less, but make it up by selling a lot.

How do u think US can sell for much less, they have alot of inventory.

You have to be careful when you lower prices... It was a big move for Porsche to do that because it will really hurt resale value.

[SilverRex]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2

You have to be careful when you lower prices... It was a big move for Porsche to do that because it will really hurt resale value.

nothing will be perfect, you give a little to get alittle, mind you no one said anything when prices were risen to where they were now.

After all, this is about purchasing new cars, if you want to benefit all the new car sales every year from now, you must take some punishment in the re-sell department,

unless your planning never to buy any new car for the rest of your life. then again you wouldnt need to sell your car and worry about the resell either.

it goes both ways.