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Thread: Red light Cameras (not speed cameras) REDUCED (yes) rear-end collisions

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    Default Red light Cameras (not speed cameras) REDUCED (yes) rear-end collisions

    I believe in having red light cameras, they definitely do catch those who are brainless enough to run a blatant red light (not yellow)

    But contrary to what you have heard, red light cameras save lives and have reduced the number of collisions (in general) at designated intersections.

    48.2% reduction in right angle collisions
    39.6% reduction is rear-end collisions



    The rear end collision number is surprising, and although the study shows that its not statistically significant at the 95% confidence level, rear enders DID NOT go up.


    to speed-on-green cameras though (esp if they are set like +-5kph)


    http://www.calgarypolice.ca/sections...20Synopsis.pdf

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    3) RLC safety effects were found to spillover to non-RLC equipped intersections.
    -An 8.6% reduction in right angle collisions was found at non Red Light Cameras unsignalized intersections. This finding indicates safety enhancements achieved at RLC intersections are estimated to generalize across other intersections in Calgary. Results were statistically significant with a 95% probability that the result is accurate.
    Wait, what?

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    Are you going to believe a synopsis that only mentions the good things? Where's the study? I bet it can be torn apart. This is the best line:

    program effects on rear-end collisions are not conclusive
    The title of this thread should be "Red light cameras effect inconclusive".

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    glass of water half full vs half empty.

    As for the green light cameras,it's only going to make motorists slam on their brakes at every intersection and make commutes even more of a pain in the ass than it already is.Since when does green mean stop?

    it's time to invest in license plate covers or spray.

    http://www.phantomplate.com/
    Last edited by yoda124; 02-28-2009 at 09:47 PM.

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    Hahahahaha....

    Yeah... BULLSHIT. Do they believe what they wrote and their interpretation, or do they think we are that stupid?

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    ^^Does that PhantomPlate stuff actually work against the cameras the city is installing? Group buy anyone?

    Anyone have more info on the type of cameras that are being installed? I am wondering if a bunch of high powered IR emitters surrounding the license plate would also block the cameras?

    http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/23/d...acts-security/

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    This is for everyone who says:

    "RED LIGHT CAMERAS CAUSE MORE REAR END COLLISIONS"


    Study clearly shows they do not.

    The effect of reducing rear end collisions is debatable however.

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    Originally posted by Mibz
    Wait, what?
    People are getting the message and are actually stopping for red lights about 10% more now at other intersections.
    Last edited by revelations; 03-01-2009 at 01:34 AM.

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    Originally posted by mx73someday
    Are you going to believe a synopsis that only mentions the good things? Where's the study? I bet it can be torn apart. This is the best line:



    The title of this thread should be "Red light cameras effect inconclusive".
    You quoted the section of the rear-end collision study.

    There is no argument that it is inconclusive regarding a DECREASE in rear-end collisions however the main point is to decrease the more dangerous right-angle collisions.

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    Look who released the study...

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    LOL

    http://www.motorists.org/blog/red-li...that-prove-it/

    ok so you managed to find 1 study that says rear end collisions have not increased because of red light camera's

    heres a link with 5 reputable studies that prove otherwise. The city of calgary doesnt give a shit about our safety, this is only a money grab plain and simple.

    i would actually have a little faith in the link that you posted if it was not written by the city of calgary police, i like the "report did not acheive a 95% confidence level so the results are inconclusive" when they talked specificially about rear end collisions. That way when someone proves them wrong they will easily be able to pull out the " O it must have been that 5% then"
    Last edited by chkolny541; 03-01-2009 at 01:45 AM.
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    http://calsun.canoe.ca/News/Alberta/...22456-sun.html

    Cops want green light for more red light cameras because study says they're just the thing to prevent accidents ... or do they?
    By RICK BELL

    If a civilian coughed up evidence this way, the uniforms would just roll their eyes.

    It's sad, hearing cops crowing about red-light cameras, saying little, explaining less, sticking to a script designed NOT to tell the whole story while hoping the press is willing to be spoon fed.

    The Calgary police want to put up at least three more red-light cameras, maybe more, including one soon to be announced at 16 Ave. and Deerfoot Tr. The province also requires a study be done.

    The cop brass realize some out there think red-light cameras are cash cows. Others aren't sure what they feel.

    Studies elsewhere on the continent show cameras don't really make life much safer. Some places have even banned the devices.

    So ... Gadzooks Batman ... here is a study. And the study shows ... who would have thunk it ... red-light cameras are pretty close to the greatest gift to humanity since the pop-up toaster.

    Right-angle collisions are down 48.2%. Rear-end collisions are reduced by 39.6%. The safety effects of the cameras spill over to intersections without cameras. For every buck spent on the cameras, Calgarians save almost $11 in medical costs, property damage and lost productivity.

    The conclusion?

    Red-light cameras rule.

    Can't wait until April Fool's Day when the red-light cameras start taking snapshots of folks going over the speed limit through a green light.

    A similar report on speed-on-green cameras will no doubt be equally rocking.

    But first, there is this report. Well, actually we don't get a report. We have a one-page synopsis of a 15-page study.

    Sgt. Clive Marsh, the man in charge, can't give us the study. Maybe in a day or two, he says. Maybe later in the day.

    Late in the day, there is no study. Then, after a phone call to city police HQ, this scribe scores the study.

    He is told the report is sure tough to come by. He is told the police had to get the report from the people who wrote the report and they are in Ontario.

    You have to wonder, since the cops scoop up $3.9 million last year on red-light tickets, why they couldn't have copies of the study on hand or even afford to bring one of the study's big brains to explain. Why put on a big show if the headliner isn't in town?

    After all, questioning Sgt. Marsh is tougher than dealing with know-nothing Sgt. Schultz from Hogan's Heroes.

    The sergeant can't comment on other studies showing red-light cameras aren't effective. He doesn't bother to ask the people doing the study why their findings differ but he feels they're "very, very thorough."

    He knows this study says the cameras are a good thing though he's not sure why they are good in Calgary but not so good in many other locales.

    Calgarians are, in Marsh's words, "just driving more confidently and showing more awareness of the safety aspects of driving."

    He tosses off this chestnut as an intuition of his.

    He says the Calgary police always thought red-light cameras were great and now they had proof but getting proof wasn't the purpose.

    Oh no.

    He does admit they are "pretty excited." Then there's the study. Sgt. Marsh doesn't know the cost of the study because it's "not part of my program."

    "I'm the operational component," he says.

    Many legitimate questions could be asked about the ins and outs of the method used to crunch the numbers, because the devil is always in the details, but the police have no one to answer.

    They also can't explain why there is no review of the study by other traffic experts.

    The report, such as it is, does find a reduction in right-angle crashes from the number of collisions expected if there was no red-light camera.

    But any decrease in rear-end accidents from the number expected without red-light cameras is "not statistically significant." Say what?

    "It is not possible to state that the effect of the red-light camera program on rear-end collisions is conclusive." The reason for the difference between the results of this study and previously published results in other studies in other jurisdictions also requires "further research."

    As for better safety somehow spilling over from red-light camera intersections to other intersections, there's actually a significant increase over the expected rear-enders in red-light intersections. "Further assessment needs to be conducted to explain this result."

    No kidding.

    The alleged economic benefits are a jumble of numbers where the police again can't handle the arithmetic.

    Where are the police handlers? Why are the cops pitching this half-baked spin? Even on the question of whether longer yellow lights would prevent collisions, Marsh answers: "I can't really answer."

    He says that's up to Silly Hall's roads department.

    He also says the red-light cameras aren't a cash cow but cash is "part of the program."

    What a gong show. Funny. The consultants once wrote a deep-think Silly Hall should use. It found snow on the roads causes lots of crashes.

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    Originally posted by chkolny541
    LOL

    http://www.motorists.org/blog/red-li...that-prove-it/

    ok so you managed to find 1 study that says rear end collisions have not increased because of red light camera's

    heres a link with 5 reputable studies that prove otherwise. The city of calgary doesnt give a shit about our safety, this is only a money grab plain and simple.

    i would actually have a little faith in the link that you posted if it was not written by the city of calgary police, i like the "report did not acheive a 95% confidence level so the results are inconclusive" when they talked specificially about rear end collisions. That way when someone proves them wrong they will easily be able to pull out the " O it must have been that 5% then"
    Exactly -- the CPS study is simply bad science with POLITICAL BIAS written all over it.
    Last edited by Pshrynk; 03-01-2009 at 02:38 PM.

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    I remember hearing this on the news. They only mentioned the right hand turn collisions.
    Immediatly i assumed rear enders would have went way up due to ppl slamming on the brakes to avoid the ticket.
    I would be curious to find out more

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    I agree that the CPS traffic guys should release the study in its entirety for anyone to look at - not just the synopsis.


    Yes, there have been many studies done around the world regarding the efficacy of RLCs in general.

    Some have shown an increase in collisions, some have shown a decrease in collisions.

    There has also been a lot of grief down in the States regarding the placement of the RLCs in intersections that have have an abnormally short yellow signal.



    On a side note, the CPS also has MOBILE red light camera vans..... did you guys know about this already?

    http://www.calgarypolice.ca/sections.../redlight.html

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    The lengths the cps goes to justify these things are just ridiculous.

    I enjoyed that article from Rick Bell. Pretty much sums up how I feel about the situation.

    Ive personally never gotten a red light ticket but I foresee a few green light tickets (speeding up for a yellow) in my future
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    One of the argument that I heard that most stats collected in 2008/2007 should be thrown out because people drove way less when gas prices were high.

    Now the economy is in the tanker, people will keep on piling on to mass transit system and drive less.

    So cops can keep patting themselves in the back but we all know that none of these devices can definitively take credit.

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    Well of course something is up.

    It makes no intuitive sense, the cops are unable to produce their report or explain it or answer basic questions about it.

    It's fucking hogwash to dumbfound the masses and put us under constant surveillance.

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    man this is the reason why, the last time i wanted a quote for quick paint job, i was told to take a number and come back in a month.

    saw this on the news tonite and wow i couldnt believe it between RLC GLC and Park+ im going to have to pick up a part time job . Please Mr.Mayor/CPS/City Council any other way that you would like to screw us out of our money ...... uh uh i know, why dont you put some cams on each entrance of the deerfoot and capture time of entrance/exit and calculate travel time in between, and penelize speeding , you know for that cherry on top.

    I am really getting tired of this city, money money money damm how about letting the city grow by being profitable, for the inhibitants, specially now with the economics times i find this outrageus.

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    In the end, if one does not break the law, then one has nothing to be concerned about.

    You don't get a 'speed on green' ticket if you are obeying the speed limit... nor do you get a 'red light' ticket if you avoid blasting through red signals at an intersection.

    I don't really understand why people are getting so upset about the extra surveillance... all you have to do is obey the rules and you have nothing to stress about.

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