Unfit vehicle causes accident?

[Kloubek]

So here's a question for you all....

I briefly had an Impala which I ended up trading (plus cash) for a 2001 Yukon. I never registered the Yukon, since I only took it as in investment. I ended up trading it to the same Beyond member I got the Impala from. (We make many trades) I will keep his name quiet for now, but if he wants to add something to this conversation, feel free.

Anyway, he registered it and ended up flipping it to some guy in Red Deer a short time thereafter. This all occured in 2007.

Then the Beyond member gets a call a few days ago from someone representing an insurance company, I believe. He was told that the back diff locked up in the truck, and caused an accident. Furthermore, they say the vehicle had been previously damaged, and was not roadworthy. (Yet, he was able to register it no problem. The guy I got it from also had it registered in Alberta)

So first of all, what should this Beyond member do? What is his actual liability, if any? Does he have any legal obligation to mark the sale as it being damaged... even though he had no clue of any such damage? Is it not the current owner's responsibility to check if there is any registered damage in the motor vehicle system and/or get it inspected? Should we try to locate the guy who sold it to me, so we can let the shit roll downhill to him?

From my side, I 100% did not know of any damage. It looked and ran great and smooth. This Beyond member was able to register it as an active vehicle, no problem. He too noticed no damage. I see no reason why either of us should be held liable in any way. I believe it is the current owner's responsibility to get any damage checks done on it, and/or get it inspected. Furthermore, I find it difficult to believe that this insurance company can prove that the truck failed due to any previous damage.

Apparently, they are now threatening to sue him for $26,000 for selling an unfit vehicle to the current owner.

Thoughts? Please - no stupid shit here. This is serious business.

(And yes - we are both aware it would have been a good idea to get the vehicle inspected and/or VIN put through the registry system. So there is no need to remind us.)

[sr20s14zenki]

As far as i know "Sold as is where is", is enough to clear you of anything? Maybe they are trying to scare you? How do they not know that 5 previous owners who never registered the car, one of them could have covered it up? Its too vague in alberta as to where a veichle has been, as you are not required to register the car to own it. Also, as far as i know, its up to the purchaser to get a pre-purchase inspection done to make sure there is nothing wrong........why should that be up to you? If you or your friend had it registered, it obviously had an active or rebuilt status yes? If thats the case, how are you supposed to know? If insurance companies want to limit these things from happening,why dont they make inspections mandatory on ALL veichles, not just one that are 12 years old?

[GOnSHO]

there is no possible way for you or the other beyond member or the people before you to be sued.

The bill of sale states "sold as is where is" as sr20 pointed out, which exempts you from anything that happens to the vehicles after the papers have been signed.

[JAYMEZ]

Doesnt Buyers Beware have anything to do with this? Seems like a pointless tactic by the insurance company to blame on someone else.

First off .. How do you know that the guy who bought the car didnt fuck it up? Repair it.. Crash it .. repair it.. You cant tell what the history of the car is from 2007-Present.

Second.. They insured it until it got in the accident , they should have it inspected no?

Third .. Is it a common thing in the Yukon?

Four.. It was in 2007.. I could fuck up a care beyond believe from 2007 - present..

Tell them to go F themselves and pay out like an insurance company should for its customers.


Its like me getting in a crash with a car I bought 3 years ago , and then blaming the past driver for making my tires worn... You have nothing to worry about.


This of course is my personal opinion and I am not a lawyer .

[topmade]

I think the only way they can win is if they can find evidence that the previous owner KNEW of these problems and intentionally hid it from the new owners. I think it's easy for you guys to win, but unless you are familiar with legal terms, I would get a lawyer to represent yourself, or at least talk with one first.

[core_upt]

Wel, if the vehicle was sold and no registered again, how can they trace it back to the Beyonder? Who's to say that other people in between didn't buy it and drive it unregistered. Someone could have trashed it on a farm, pulled parts from it, whatever? I can't see this being the members, or your problem. Talk to your insurance company or maybe MaskedBandit will chime in?

[Kloubek]

Oh, I KNOW they are trying to scare him. The insurance company wants to recover their costs. But I don't think they have much of a legal leg to stand on.

And you are right - for my friend to register it, it would have had to have an active or rebuilt status. I originally had the original registration from the previous owner, and I'm sure I would have noticed if it was anything other than active.

In my opinion, the insurance company is engaging in a pipedream. They will have no ability to prove he tried to cover anything up. If they REALLY want to try to pin this on someone, they need to work back until they find the individual who sold it to me - or perhaps even the owner prior to him. If this truck truly was damaged, somewhere down the line, someone tried to cover something up. And it wasn't either of us.

All solid information guys. There really is nothing saying that this guy didn't damage it himself and is trying to pass the buck.

[sr20s14zenki]

Originally posted by Kloubek
Oh, I KNOW they are trying to scare him. The insurance company wants to recover their costs. But I don't think they have much of a legal leg to stand on.

And you are right - for my friend to register it, it would have had to have an active or rebuilt status. I originally had the original registration from the previous owner, and I'm sure I would have noticed if it was anything other than active.

In my opinion, the insurance company is engaging in a pipedream. They will have no ability to prove he tried to cover anything up. If they REALLY want to try to pin this on someone, they need to work back until they find the individual who sold it to me - or perhaps even the owner prior to him. If this truck truly was damaged, somewhere down the line, someone tried to cover something up. And it wasn't either of us.

you cant register a veichle if it isnt active or rebuilt, anything else is written off and hasnt passed an inspection. Therefore, if he registered it, and the previous owner registered it, it obviously had the proper status. And for that matter, how do they know the owner didnt fuck with it and just isnt coming forward?

[Kloubek]

So, on a related but somewhat side note, what is to stop someone from damaging their own vehicle (say, bending the frame), then putting some spit and wax on it to make it look decent, and then selling it even though it isn't roadworthy? Anyone know if this is an actual offense or is it still buyer beware?

[Grogador]

AFAIK intentionally misrepresenting/selling an unsafe vehicle is a pretty serious offence...

[Kloubek]

It might very well be. (And should be). But I would suspect it is difficult to prove that an average individual knows off-hand if a vehicle is or is not 100% roadworthy.

The reason I ask this, in reference to the issue above, is to try to figure out how it is that this vehicle could have an active status if it was previously damaged. Apparently, the guy I bought it from was the second owner in Alberta. If he say... 4X4'd it and damaged it, but didn't report it to anyone, that might explain how it managed to retain an active status.

[Pollywog]

AS IS means as is. Especially if none of you had any idea the diff was going to grenade itself, I would've told him that its not my problem, better luck next time - *click*.

[FraserB]

No liability, like everyone has said its as is. They cannot prove the current owner didnt damage the diff while in his possession or fail to put or change the fluid. BTW, they will never find what caused the diff to lock up or grenade, if it was bad enough to cause an accident then the R&P are most likely destroyed, as well as the spider gears and most likely the cover.

[Tik-Tok]

Lol, the insurance company is dreaming, and trying to muscle their money back from an innocent person.

Unless your friend has a used car sales company (in which case every car sold HAS to have a safety done on it), there's no way they can win in court.

[Xtrema]

I would say you should out which insurance company this is.

[anothers10]

Is it verified its the real insurance company and not some scam ?

[Team_Mclaren]

lol, funny that the insurance company doesnt pull the same shit on hundreds on used car lots that sell unsafe vehicles daily... fuck them

[Kloubek]

Well, I'm just getting this info 2nd hand so I am not 100% sure it has all been verified. I am not sure which company it is - though the guy was calling from Ontario. (Head office perhaps?)

[FivE.SeveN]

Ridiculous, and yet I totally expect to hear something like this come from an insurance company.

Tell em to GTFO

[71/454]

I think the key here is if they can prove the previous owner covered up the damage to sell the vehicle when it may have been unsafe to drive.
I have a pretty good guess as to what caused the rear diff to lock. My thought is the cross pin slid out of the centre section and struck the housing causing both axles to lock, I have seen this before. There is a long bolt that holds the cross pin in that has a tendency to break, if someone does to many one wheel burnouts with it. Sometimes when trying to remove the bolt to perform regular maintenance you can break it, its a crap shoot. The question may be that someone tried to remove the bolt, broke it and said to hell with it, and either screwed the broken part back in or left it out completely, put the cover on and just ran it. If they can prove someone was in there and did this they would try to blame them. There is always a little of the bolt left holding the pin in. It's not a complicated fix, but it can be a bear. I have seen where someone breaks the bolt off but there is still 4-5 threads, doesn't want to fix it and just threads the bolt back in and it works fine. It could work for 20 min or 20 years this way.
Although proving who opened it up is another story.