Attack on Canada, U.S is attack on Muslims: imams

[G-Suede]

CBC New

A group of Canadian and U.S. Islamic leaders on Friday issued a fatwa, or religious edict, declaring that an attack by extremists on the two countries would constitute an attack on the 10 million Muslims living in North America. The 20 imams associated with the Islamic Supreme Council of Canada said this marked the first fatwa by the Muslim clergy declaring attacks on Canada and the U.S. as attacks on Muslims. "In our view, these attacks are evil, and Islam requires Muslims to stand up against this evil," the imams said in their fatwa. The imams also said it is a duty of every Muslim in Canada and the U.S. to safeguard the two countries. "They must expose any person, Muslim or non-Muslim, who would cause harm to fellow Canadians or Americans," they said. The 20 imams who signed the fatwa come from B.C., Alberta, Ontario, Quebec and Houston. The fatwa comes just weeks after an attempted bombing on Christmas Day of a U.S. airliner bound for Detroit from Amsterdam. Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab, a 23-year-old Nigerian Muslim man, has been indicted on six charges, which include attempted use of a weapon of mass destruction and attempted murder.

I'm not sure what to make of it.

[BigMass]

Originally posted by G-Suede


I'm not sure what to make of it. [/B]

Regardless of the message, I think people should form their own opinions instead of listening to religious leaders, politicians or media pundits.

[Kloubek]

It is a bold, and wise decision on behalf of the North American muslim population. I am really pleased to see this.

With that said, extremists will likely not give two shits about it. They will view North American muslims to be the enemy, or will chalk them up as being misguided or brainwashed, and worth sacrifice. When it comes to extremist movements like this, there isn't really a lot that will stand in the way of their skewed perspective. They will take any obstacle, and come up with some half-ass excuse of why it is not valid as a deterrant.

Still, nice to see.

[G-Suede]

Originally posted by BigMass

Regardless of the message, I think people should form their own opinions instead of listening to religious leaders, politicians or media pundits.

Of course. However, it's tough when people, day in and day out, are bombarded from all sides with biased information and rhetoric. Every side will claim the other is spin doctoring and trying to sell tickets.

[BigMass]

Originally posted by G-Suede


Of course. However, it's tough when people, day in and day out, are bombarded from all sides with biased information and rhetoric. Every side will claim the other is spin doctoring and trying to sell tickets.

I’d rather people be confused and not act instead of having blind faith in their one leader and believing everything he/she says. It’s a lot less dangerous that way. As for this specific incident, I believe it’s nothing more than political posturing. Who know how much “donation money” the Islamic Supreme Council of Canada got to put these statements. It’s very common knowledge that the government works very closely with religious groups of every faith as a method of public manipulation / control / psyops etc.

[DonJuan]

I think its a good idea, but would like to hear what muslims have to say.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by DonJuan
I think its a good idea, but would like to hear what muslims have to say.

Agreed! I still think it is better than maintaining silence though.

[TKRIS]

As I've said countless time here before:
Islam has an image problem, and only they can fix it.

As long as the type of extreme fanaticism that that religion has largely tolerated is largely tolerated, they allow the minority to usurp the way others see them.

For too long Muslims have kept deafeningly quiet about terrorism perpetrated in the name of their religion. It's about time they started taking control and responsibility for their image.

This is a step in the right direction. No more apologists. No more keeping quiet. Time to come out and condemn these people, their actions, and deny them access to the sanctuary of their own religion. The Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab's of this world need to be kicked out in the cold by those they look to for support.

[Feruk]

Like that's gonna stop anybody. The muslims over there will just retaliate with more rhetoric, or more likely, like me, not even hear about it till they make a Beyond account.

Useful add: I'd like the guy Umar Faroukh whatever to get the nickname "Christmas Day Underwear Bomber"

[CUG]

I don't know how to vote on that lol. I think it's all of those things except for hummous.

It may leave the extremists feeling alienated, where they could just as easily say that the North American muslims "aren't true muslims" or something like that.

Good move, hope it sticks. I've never seen such behaviour gather soooo much support from people who aren't members of the group.. quite the psychology here. Better be an unquestioning hippy, or you're every neo-lib buzzword they can find.

[mowglee]

Originally posted by TKRIS
As I've said countless time here before:
Islam has an image problem, and only they can fix it.

As long as the type of extreme fanaticism that that religion has largely tolerated is largely tolerated, they allow the minority to usurp the way others see them.

For too long Muslims have kept deafeningly quiet about terrorism perpetrated in the name of their religion. It's about time they started taking control and responsibility for their image.

This is a step in the right direction. No more apologists. No more keeping quiet. Time to come out and condemn these people, their actions, and deny them access to the sanctuary of their own religion. The Umar Farouk Abdulmutallab's of this world need to be kicked out in the cold by those they look to for support.

you tha man. Muslims shouldn't be labeled the same as these retards who are just ruining the name of the religion. It doesn't matter what religion you claim to be if you are doing these stupid things you obviously are not following that religion so don't say you are a Muslim or Jewish etc.

People also need to realize that these people are not following the religion, instead they are extremists who THINK they are doing good deeds for the sake of God buy attacking the "enemy." Islam is a religion about peace and equality for all and nowhere does it say "go suicide bomb yourself" or "hurt innocent people to make a point." So these terrorists are purposely doing the exact opposite of what the religion says but all Muslims are being painted with the same brush as these retarded individuals.

[G-Suede]

Originally posted by mowglee


you tha man. Muslims shouldn't be labeled the same as these retards who are just ruining the name of the religion. It doesn't matter what religion you claim to be if you are doing these stupid things you obviously are not following that religion so don't say you are a Muslim or Jewish etc.

People also need to realize that these people are not following the religion, instead they are extremists who THINK they are doing good deeds for the sake of God buy attacking the "enemy." Islam is a religion about peace and equality for all and nowhere does it say "go suicide bomb yourself" or "hurt innocent people to make a point." So these terrorists are purposely doing the exact opposite of what the religion says but all Muslims are being painted with the same brush as these retarded individuals.

I believe that the terrorists believe they are following Islam...just as much as the weirdo fundies believe they are following Christianity.

To say Islam is about peace, well, that may well be true, or at least as much about peace as Christianity has proven itself over time. The fact remains that people are people, and in my opinion will do whatever need be to promote their own selfish agendas. However, to say Islam is about equality, well I really have to question that claim. I struggle buying into that nonsense simply because the men certainly look a hell of a lot more equal than the women...at least in my personal experience, and from the conclusions that can be drawn through most media.

[ZenOps]

The stupidest thing I've ever heard...

Not bombing a nation just because it holds people of your faith. Muslims are learning too much bad intent from Christianity.

What happens when they find a nation that has no people of your faith, race, language or preference of ketchup flavoured ice cream? Does that mean its ok to invade and pillage it?

Its like saying I'd like to drop a nuke on Rob Anders, but I won't because it will probably kill too many of my friends. But if he was on vacation on a desert island - Its now fair game?

I wouldn't like to be the country that doesn't have 41 flavours though. They get nuked first.

[dezmarez]

Originally posted by ZenOps
The stupidest thing I've ever heard...

Not bombing a nation just because it holds people of your faith. Muslims are learning too much bad intent from Christianity.

What happens when they find a nation that has no people of your faith, race, language or preference of ketchup flavoured ice cream? Does that mean its ok to invade and pillage it?

Its like saying I'd like to drop a nuke on Rob Anders, but I won't because it will probably kill too many of my friends. But if he was on vacation on a desert island - Its now fair game?

I wouldn't like to be the country that doesn't have 41 flavours though. They get nuked first.

What percentage of your posts either directly or indirectly mention Rob Anders??

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by dezmarez



What percentage of your posts either directly or indirectly mention Rob Anders??

110/549 according to beyond's search. That's 20%. I don't know how he hasn't been banned yet, longest running troll in the history of beyond I suppose.

It's nice to see the Muslims speak out against their extremist brothers, but as said, it will do little to deter them. A good step in the right direction though, maybe if the entire rest of the world speaks out against them, and on a continual bases, it may prevent younger muslims from joining.

[BlueGoblin]

To be fair to ZenOps, he isn't a troll, at least not in the traditional sense. He remains on topic around half the time and uses complete sentences. I'll grant you that what he says is usually nuttier than squirrel turds, but nevertheless, I kind of enjoy him being around.

[Seanith]

Originally posted by mowglee

Islam is a religion about peace and equality for all and nowhere does it say "go suicide bomb yourself" or "hurt innocent people to make a point." So these terrorists are purposely doing the exact opposite of what the religion says but all Muslims are being painted with the same brush as these retarded individuals.

Haha, the old "The Religion of Peace" argument. If it's the religion of peace, why are there so many misunderstanders of it that cause oh so much death and destruction? Don't be confused. Innocent people are only Muslims according to the Koran.

A few quotes to help you understand a bit better.

Qur'an:8:7 "Allah wished to confirm the truth by His words: 'Wipe the infidels out to the last.'"

Qur'an:8:39 "So, fight them till all opposition ends and the only religion is Islam."

Qur'an:8:59 "The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them. They are your enemy and Allah's enemy."

Qur'an:9:5 "When the sacred forbidden months for fighting are past, fight and kill disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, beleaguer them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."

Qur'an 9:3 "Allah is not bound by any contract or treaty with non-Muslims, nor is His Apostle."

Qur'an 4:91 "You will find others who, while wishing to live in peace and being safe from you to gain the confidence of their people; thrown back to mischief headlong; therefore if they do not withdraw from you, and offer you peace besides restraining their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them; and against these We have given you a clear sanction and authority." [So if you wish to live in peace, but are perceived as being mischievous (i.e., non-Muslim), Allah has given his Jihad warriors "a clear sanction and authority to seize and kill" you.]

Pretty heavy stuff from a peaceful, loving and benign God. It's strange that I don't remember hearing about Buddha or Jesus being murderers and war-mongers.

Originally posted by ZenOps

Not bombing a nation just because it holds people of your faith. Muslims are learning too much bad intent from Christianity.

What happens when they find a nation that has no people of your faith, race, language or preference of ketchup flavoured ice cream? Does that mean its ok to invade and pillage it?

ZenOps, you actually hit the nail on the head IMO why this just a publicity stunt to garner support from non-muslims that don't know how to read between the lines. Did anyone see them mention that they think its wrong to hurt and kill NON-Muslims anywhere in that article?? They didn't mention it at all, because they don't believe it.

That being said, I also think this is a step forward. It's good to see them actually condemn these actions and maybe issuance of a fatwa might help some of the "moderates" to speak out against these radicals.

[CUG]

Originally posted by ZenOps
The stupidest thing I've ever heard...
Muslims are learning too much bad intent from Christianity.

This.










Yeah, no. I don't know how far back you're looking to take that statement, but let me know if you're willing to debate it. I have done homework on this, yes because I'm white.

Originally posted by Seanith


Qur'an:8:7 "Allah wished to confirm the truth by His words: 'Wipe the infidels out to the last.'"

Qur'an:8:39 "So, fight them till all opposition ends and the only religion is Islam."

Qur'an:8:59 "The infidels should not think that they can get away from us. Prepare against them whatever arms and weaponry you can muster so that you may terrorize them. They are your enemy and Allah's enemy."

Qur'an:9:5 "When the sacred forbidden months for fighting are past, fight and kill disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, beleaguer them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."

Qur'an 9:3 "Allah is not bound by any contract or treaty with non-Muslims, nor is His Apostle."

Qur'an 4:91 "You will find others who, while wishing to live in peace and being safe from you to gain the confidence of their people; thrown back to mischief headlong; therefore if they do not withdraw from you, and offer you peace besides restraining their hands, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them; and against these We have given you a clear sanction and authority." [So if you wish to live in peace, but are perceived as being mischievous (i.e., non-Muslim), Allah has given his Jihad warriors "a clear sanction and authority to seize and kill" you.]

Pretty heavy stuff from a peaceful, loving and benign God. It's strange that I don't remember hearing about Buddha or Jesus being murderers and war-mongers.

Case closed against ZenOps, disregard my invitation to hear your fabricated and false pro-muslim, anti-christian ramblings.

[Antonito]

Originally posted by Seanith

Pretty heavy stuff from a peaceful, loving and benign God. It's strange that I don't remember hearing about Buddha or Jesus being murderers and war-mongers.

You don't remember hearing about it because you are ignorant to anything that doesn't fit your worldview, which is spoon fed to you by ridiculous blogs and youtube videos

Deuteronomy 7:16-26

16 Also you shall 7destroy all the peoples whom the Lord your God delivers over to you; your eye shall have no pity on them; nor shall you serve their gods, for that will vbe a snare to you.
17 “If you should say in your heart, ‘These nations are greater than I; how can I dispossess them?’— 18 you shall not be afraid of them, but you shall wremember well what the Lord your God did to Pharaoh and to all Egypt: 19 xthe great trials which your eyes saw, the signs and the wonders, the mighty hand and the outstretched arm, by which the Lord your God brought you out. So shall the Lord your God do to all the peoples of whom you are afraid. 20 yMoreover the Lord your God will send the hornet among them until those who are left, who hide themselves from you, are destroyed. 21 You shall not be terrified of them; for the Lord your God, the great and awesome God, is among you. 22 And the Lord your God will drive out those nations before you zlittle by little; you will be unable to 8destroy them at once, lest the beasts of the field become too numerous for you. 23 But the Lord your God will deliver them over to you, and will inflict defeat upon them until they are destroyed. 24 And aHe will deliver their kings into your hand, and you will destroy their name from under heaven; bno one shall be able to stand 9against you until you have destroyed them. 25 You shall burn the carved images of their gods with fire; you shall not ccovet 1the silver or gold that is on them, nor take it for yourselves, lest you be snared by it; for it is an abomination to the Lord your God. 26 Nor shall you bring an abomination into your house, lest you be doomed to destruction like it. You shall utterly detest it and utterly abhor it, dfor it is an 2accursed thing

Jeremiah 50:21-22

21 “Go up against the land of Merathaim, against it,
And against the inhabitants of oPekod.
7Waste and utterly destroy them,” says the Lord,
“And do paccording to all that I have commanded you.
22 qA sound of battle is in the land,
And of great destruction

Judges 1:1-8

1 Now after the adeath of Joshua it came to pass that the children of Israel basked the Lord, saying, “Who shall be first to go up for us against the cCanaanites to fight against them?”

2 And the Lord said, d“Judah shall go up. Indeed I have delivered the land into his hand.”

3 So Judah said to eSimeon his brother, “Come up with me to my allotted territory, that we may fight against the Canaanites; and fI will likewise go with you to your allotted territory.” And Simeon went with him. 4 Then Judah went up, and the Lord delivered the Canaanites and the Perizzites into their hand; and they killed ten thousand men at gBezek. 5 And they found Adoni-Bezek in Bezek, and fought against him; and they defeated the Canaanites and the Perizzites. 6 Then Adoni-Bezek fled, and they pursued him and caught him and cut off his thumbs and big toes. 7 And Adoni-Bezek said, “Seventy kings with their thumbs and big toes cut off used to gather scraps under my table; has I have done, so God has repaid me.” Then they brought him to Jerusalem, and there he died.
8 Now ithe children of Judah fought against Jerusalem and took it; they struck it with the edge of the sword and set the city on fire

etc, etc, etc

Yeah but hey, it's just islam that is a violent religion. So even when muslim leaders do exactly what you've been complaining they haven't been doing, why not just spew more ignorant bullshit, that seems like a good idea, eh?

[Ven]

What's the point here? So both the Qur'an and the Bible have violence towards others. Ancient life was violent, so that's what was recorded.

What's the difference? The group of followers who perpetuate this violence and hate against others in modern times.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE6080MV20100109

In the case of Imam Syed Soharwardy and the issued fatwa, I hope to my deepest core that his message is genuine and followed. It appears to be a step in the right direction.

http://www.islamicsupremecouncil.com...0terrorism.htm