Why do mods delete mod chip discussion?

[googe]

Why do mods (rage2) delete/close threads about buying and selling mod chips? Pirating games is illegal. Installing a mod chip does not imply pirating games. Mod chips are not illegal to use, buy, or sell. If I was selling a CDRW drive, would that get deleted?

Please consider this before deleting another post.

Thanks

[Zephyr]

Mod chips = use of illegal pirated games. Why do you have a mod chip? To play copied games or imported games, but its normally used to play copied games.

Same question can be asked about bongs.

Why do people buy bongs? Cuz it looks pretty? NO! you blockhead, to smoke weed of course. Mod chips cause illegal problems.

Beyond doesnt allow discussion of illegal operations.

[Weapon_R]

Sony Computer Entertainment America Inc. joined its trade association, Interactive Digital Software Association, in applauding the Canadian Department of Justice and the Royal Canadian Mounted Police for a precedent-setting conviction for the illegal sale and distribution of circumvention devices. The conviction marks the first time a defendant has been convicted under criminal statutes in Canada for selling modification chips ("mod chips"). Mod chips mimic the PlayStation technological security system to allow counterfeit and pirated PlayStation format game discs to play.

"This is an important case of first impression in Canada," said Riley Russell, general counsel, Sony Computer Entertainment America. "Sony Computer Entertainment America has been fighting circumvention devices like these within U.S. borders for years. We are pleased that our neighbor to the North has recognized the illegitimacy of these devices under applicable law."

In this precedent-setting case, defendant Robert Garby pled guilty in the Ontario Court of Justice in Ottawa to six counts of criminal code violation and copyright law infringement. Using evidence procured by the Canadian Department of Justice and Royal Canadian Mounted Police, Federal Prosecutors detailed Garby's actions to sell illegal mod chips and pirate games under the name "Kustum Komputers." Garby was fined $17,000 and sentenced to twelve months probation.

The U.S. Congress passed the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) in October of 1998 that made illegal "circumvention devices" that circumvent a technological measure designed to control access to a copyrighted work. Sony Computer Entertainment America has successfully argued that mod chips are illegal circumvention devices under the DMCA in the United States, and the recent Canadian conviction recognizes that such devices violate copyright laws in other areas of the world.

And so there you have it. Mod chips are illegal in Canada, and have been established as being illegal under various Canadian courts and law enforcement agencies.

[Redlyne_mr2]

So then why are there so many websites , alot of them Canadian, selling mod chips? There has to be loop holes

[googe]

Originally posted by Zephyr
Mod chips = use of illegal pirated games. Why do you have a mod chip?

Incorrect. For a ps2 where what you can do is limited, yes. Thats not what they are for on an xbox. On an xbox, it lets you run unsigned code. This allows:

1) Playing movies and music on your xbox, using something like xbox media player
2) Playing homebrew software (several free, self-supporting alternatives to xbox live)
3) Installing emulators, allowing you to play your old snes and nes classics on your xbox
4) Running one of the many distributions of linux made specifically for the xbox
5) Loading your own games to the HD, so you dont have load time every time you walk in to a new building or start a new level (VERY handy in games like morrowind, or sega gt 2002 where it has to load for about 10 seconds just navigating to other menus)

etc. There is plenty to do without violating copyright law.

[googe]

Original Post Removed. (Please read the Forum Rules and Terms of Use before posting again, or risk getting banned).

[Zephyr]

Originally posted by googe


Incorrect. For a ps2 where what you can do is limited, yes. Thats not what they are for on an xbox. On an xbox, it lets you run unsigned code. This allows:

1) Playing movies and music on your xbox, using something like xbox media player
2) Playing homebrew software (several free, self-supporting alternatives to xbox live)
3) Installing emulators, allowing you to play your old snes and nes classics on your xbox
4) Running one of the many distributions of linux made specifically for the xbox
5) Loading your own games to the HD, so you dont have load time every time you walk in to a new building or start a new level (VERY handy in games like morrowind, or sega gt 2002 where it has to load for about 10 seconds just navigating to other menus)



etc. There is plenty to do without violating copyright law. [/B]

1. there is a reason dvd playback is locked. so u hae to buy to unlock it, cracking the lock is basically pirating it like pirating software that needs a cd key.
3. emulators i believe are illegal unless you buy the game with a legit copyright.
4. there is a reason it is built by microsoft.
5. thats why it has a freaking HD with preloaded games.

[googe]

Originally posted by Zephyr


1. there is a reason dvd playback is locked. so u hae to buy to unlock it, cracking the lock is basically pirating it like pirating software that needs a cd key.
3. emulators i believe are illegal unless you buy the game with a legit copyright.
4. there is a reason it is built by microsoft.
5. thats why it has a freaking HD with preloaded games.

1 - wrong. you are not cracking any lock, there is no lock. you are providing your own software which is completely independent from the microsoft implementation. if you want to purchase the convenience of their dvd hardware and software, you can. but you dont have to. there is no cracking involved, and the code is written completely from scratch.

you forgot 2

3 -wrong. notice i said "your classics". some roms are illegal to copy, many arent at this point. in either case, if you own the original, youre allowed to have a personal copy.

4 - wrong. actually, that point doesnt even make sense? its just an x86 computer slightly modified. you can run anyones software that you are entitled to own on your pc, and i can do the same on my xbox.

5. wrong. no it doesnt. what are you talking about? there are no preloaded games, and it is not possible to load your games on your own xbox without a mod chip. i can name games that take several minutes to load a level. after copying them to my hd (and before you say it, i paid for the game, i have the retail cd and box) they take seconds.

[Super_Geo]

Originally posted by googe


1 - wrong. you are not cracking any lock, there is no lock. you are providing your own software which is completely independent from the microsoft implementation. if you want to purchase the convenience of their dvd hardware and software, you can. but you dont have to. there is no cracking involved, and the code is written completely from scratch.

you forgot 2

3 -wrong. notice i said "your classics". some roms are illegal to copy, many arent at this point. in either case, if you own the original, youre allowed to have a personal copy.

4 - wrong. actually, that point doesnt even make sense? its just an x86 computer slightly modified. you can run anyones software that you are entitled to own on your pc, and i can do the same on my xbox.

5. wrong. no it doesnt. what are you talking about? there are no preloaded games, and it is not possible to load your games on your own xbox without a mod chip. i can name games that take several minutes to load a level. after copying them to my hd (and before you say it, i paid for the game, i have the retail cd and box) they take seconds.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

[szw]

delete everything about illegal car mods too!

but really mods/admins can do whatever they please...its their board

[rage2]

Anything that's questionable, I'm going to close. The site is run on my server, and I "own" the site. If for some reason someone gets sued or charged for posting links of possible illegal activity, it'll come down to me getting sued, me getting charged. You guys gonna pay the legal fees? You guys have to understand that after the DMCA was introduced, we don't have rights anymore, even in Canada. Hell even google doesn't wanna get sued. Do a search on google for piracy stuff and you'll get this :

In response to a complaint we received under the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, we have removed result(s) from this page. If you wish, you may read the DMCA complaint for these removed results.

Protecting myself as much as possible. If you want to find piracy stuff, I'm sure there's a lot of other forums out there that might help you out.

If I leave mod chip, satellite hacking, or whatever on the site, all it takes is 1 lawsuit for this site to go bye bye. I don't want that to happen, nor do the 6000+ members.

[googe]

Originally posted by rage2
Anything that's questionable, I'm going to close. The site is run on my server, and I "own" the site. If for some reason someone gets sued or charged for posting links of possible illegal activity, it'll come down to me getting sued, me getting charged. You guys gonna pay the legal fees? You guys have to understand that after the DMCA was introduced, we don't have rights anymore. Hell even google doesn't wanna get sued. Do a search for Kazaa and you'll get this :


Protecting myself as much as possible. If you want to find piracy stuff, I'm sure there's a lot of other forums out there that might help you out.

I will personally sign over my pink slip and provide all legal costs to you if you get sued for discussion on the aforementioned topics.

DMCA is USA, anyway. You cant be threatened with it.

But, like you said, its your site and you can do what you want.

[Zephyr]

Originally posted by googe

DMCA is USA, anyway. You cant be threatened with it.

That's what the Taliban thought.

[Super_Geo]

Originally posted by Zephyr


That's what the Taliban thought.

Yeah, that's what I'm sure a lot of governments thought before the US breaks international laws and bombs the shit out of whoever they want. Yup, real victims of terror

[rage2]

Originally posted by googe
DMCA is USA, anyway. You cant be threatened with it.

Sure you can. You can get sued in a US court, and basically they will win by default. It means I'll never be able to travel to the US again. Now why would I do something that dumb for zero gain? If I wanted to take those risks, I'd be selling modchips lol.

Believe me, the DMCA took away a lot of rights from us. Fair use doesn't exist anymore. If I sell modchips for PS2s and say it's for backups of games I legitimately own, it's not gonna work . I know ppl that were in the business, that have been charged, sued, etc. Believe me, it's not worth it.

Originally posted by googe
But, like you said, its your site and you can do what you want.

Thanks for understanding .

[Superesc]

Originally posted by rage2
Anything that's questionable, I'm going to close. The site is run on my server, and I "own" the site. If for some reason someone gets sued or charged for posting links of possible illegal activity, it'll come down to me getting sued, me getting charged. You guys gonna pay the legal fees? You guys have to understand that after the DMCA was introduced, we don't have rights anymore, even in Canada. Hell even google doesn't wanna get sued. Do a search on google for piracy stuff and you'll get this :


Protecting myself as much as possible. If you want to find piracy stuff, I'm sure there's a lot of other forums out there that might help you out.

If I leave mod chip, satellite hacking, or whatever on the site, all it takes is 1 lawsuit for this site to go bye bye. I don't want that to happen, nor do the 6000+ members.

Exactly! Its easy to say I will support the site if anything happens to it, but in the end, the owner of the sites will have to take the ultimate responsibility.

Why should the owner take such risk? Why presist in asking the site to take such risk?

[Khyron]

Thought I'd bump this seeing the closed topics in the marketplace.

It's also academic for me since I already have my xbox fixed, and I love it.

The only illegal aspect of mod chips is the discussion of where to obtain illegal BIOSes. Even BargainFinder.ca is full of ads for mod chip sellers in the Video Games, Systems & Accessories section, and there are ton's of commercial sites selling chips openly without procecution.

But assuming you don't want to change the rules for selling them, can we at least relax the rules about talking ABOUT them? After all, I put a pc into a nintendo and no one came to arrest me.

Either way no matter, it's a car forum after all. Just thought I'd give a poke since we talk about executions, food poisoning, and speeding tickets.

Khyron

[rage2]

The rules will NOT be relaxed as per the concerns I outlined in my post above.

I fear the DMCA. I've had friends both in Canada and US get busted, charged, fined, because of the DMCA. I do not want that to happen to me. One of my good buddies in California, who wasn't even selling anything, just a coder, had the FBI busting down his door because he released some source code that he wrote that "could" be used to circumvent copy protection/encryption. The forums where he posted on got shut down and the owner charged too.

If you want to risk it, start your own forums and discuss it on your own servers.

Hacking used to be cool and educational, but it's a crime now. I grew up learning stuff by reverse engineering. It sucks, but it's life thanks to stupid US laws. Nowadays, I just stick to reverse engineering old and outdated Honda ECUs for fun .

[googe]

Originally posted by rage2


I fear the DMCA. I've had friends both in Canada and US get busted, charged, fined, because of the DMCA.

eh, there is no way a Canadian can be charged citing the DMCA...it doesnt exist here.

[iceburns288]

Well, I don't believe you can go to America, commit murder, and say you can't be charged because you were Canadian lol... BUT I do believe that if you hold a citizenship you are only required to follow the rules of that nation... or something like that.

I would like to mention something about mod chips... but I forgot it. I'll EDIT it in later...