Justin Trudeau kicks senators out of Liberal caucus

[01RedDX]

.

[suntan]

Originally posted by 01RedDX


I stopped reading here. If cutting your own tax that your own party created is enough to fool so many people, then what's the point.

How fucking dumb are you?

Before the GST, there was a VAT tax. That tax was hidden. The Muldoon's gov't's biggest mistake was making the GST transparent and expanding the range of taxable goods and services. Economically the GST makes great sense, so it's no wonder you have no fucking clue what you're talking about.

Fucking read.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goods_a...x_%28Canada%29

[faiz999]

Originally posted by suntan
The Cons are more corrupt and spend more than the Libs

Also, if you understand the Westminster form of parliament, and since you don't, I will explain to you that Canadians vote for a party, not a Prime Minister.

oh wow, thanks! i never knew that..but im glad u took the time to point me in the right direction. where would i be without your expertise in politics...plz tell me more!

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by 01RedDX


I stopped reading here. If cutting your own tax that your own party created is enough to fool so many people, then what's the point.

Not only reduce a tax the party created, but reducing it against the advice of your own economists and causing the budget to not be balanced (the second bullshit point on his list).

[JustinL]

Originally posted by killramos

There are plenty of things that I am happy with the conservative governments for:
-GST reduction
-Budget balancing

The GST reduction was done at the worst time; right in the middle of the bubble. It was clearly a PR move that made the average consumer feel good and not a sound economic idea to stimulate an already overstimulated economy. If had been able to hold off until after the bubble burst, the move would have been more effective.

The budget balancing was done before The PCs got there. In 1997 the budget was balanced and stayed a surplus until 2 years after Harper came in 2006. By 2008 we were back to deficits. I'm not suggesting that it was in the governments complete control, just that budget balancing isn't really part of the PC track record.

[faiz999]

Originally posted by KRyn





I agree with and most everything you stated. Canadian politics are a rather sad state of affairs. However, they make for good evening news.



Please elaborate, I would like to know which ones you are referring to. If you are going to make bold claims, you should back them up.



Corruption in politics I can't believe it! Unfortunately you have to take the good with the bad. It's like choosing a cell phone provider, you pick the one that is going to use the most lube when they take you from behind for all you are worth. Let us not forget the Liberal sponsorship scandal now.

http://www.progressive-economics.ca/...tivity-record/

there's this article from 2008 exposing his follies. its old, but i think its relevant. i wouldn't object if you thought this was too outdated for criticism.



"http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/09/16/economic-action-plan-ads-poll_n_3933054.html"


http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2...ng_walkom.html


http://www.ibtimes.com/canadas-oil-i...tments-1413672

[Hakkola]

If Harper wants to privatize healthcare and prisons that's enough for me to want any other party to win, unless he just wants there to be a private option for healthcare which there pretty much already is so it doesn't make sense.
Private prisons is a terrible, terrible idea.
Are these issues still true? I haven't been following Canadian politics much.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by Hakkola
If Harper wants to privatize healthcare and prisons that's enough for me to want any other party to win, unless he just wants there to be a private option for healthcare which there pretty much already is so it doesn't make sense.
Private prisons is a terrible, terrible idea.
Are these issues still true? I haven't been following Canadian politics much.

Where the F*&K is this bullshit coming from? And when the hell were they ever "issues" to begin with?

Also, Killramos wins the interwebs.

[KRyn]

Originally posted by faiz999



http://www.progressive-economics.ca/...tivity-record/

there's this article from 2008 exposing his follies. its old, but i think its relevant. i wouldn't object if you thought this was too outdated for criticism.



"http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/09...054.html"


http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/2...ng_walkom.html


http://www.ibtimes.com/canadas-oil-i...tments-1413672

So what policies do you disagree with? You haven't yet answered my question.
Instead you provided links to articles produced for newspapers and magazines that provide no reference material and few if any stats (none of which are relevant to government policy).
Since you went off on a tangent, so will I. If you think any one politician or group of them has the ability to turn back the clock on the Canadian economy and restore the glory days of 2006/2007 you are sadly mistaken. I am not saying that Harper is infallible, but to reference a few articles and say that a weak Canadian economy is the fault of one man or group of people is ridiculous. What you meant to say is you don't like Harper because of the current economic hardship (comparatively to other times) Canada is experiencing?

[EM2FTL]

Originally posted by kertejud2


Not only reduce a tax the party created, but reducing it against the advice of your own economists and causing the budget to not be balanced (the second bullshit point on his list).

It's even funnier when you look at their rationale for doing it (Hint, it has nothing to do with good governance and everything to do with appealing to mouth-breathers in this country):

http://www2.macleans.ca/2009/03/27/i...cs-and-policy/

Ian Brodie, Prime Minister Stephen Harper’s former chief of staff, delivered an astonishingly frank explanation today for why the Conservative government cut the Goods and Services Tax, and why he’s glad they did, even though just about every economist and tax expert said it was a terrible bit of public policy.

“Despite economic evidence to the contrary, in my view the GST cut worked,” Brodie said in Montreal at the annual conference of the McGill Institute for the Study of Canada. “It worked in the sense that by the end of the ’05-’06 campaign, voters identified the Conservative party as the party of lower taxes. It worked in the sense that it helped us to win.”

It’s not really surprising, of course, that campaign calculations lay behind the GST cuts, which have cost the federal government about $12 billion a year at the worst possible time. That’s been obvious all along.

What’s noteworthy is that Brodie, who is now a visiting fellow at the McGill institute, doesn’t shrink from publicly asserting that such a major public policy decision can still be deemed a success—even in the face of “evidence to the contrary”—if that move paid the desired political dividends.

Montreal Gazette's take on Trudeau's move (URL is somewhat telling):

http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/...711/story.html

[faiz999]

edit

[Hakkola]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1


Where the F*&K is this bullshit coming from? And when the hell were they ever "issues" to begin with?

:

We also support the exploration of alternative ways to deliver health care. Moving toward alternatives, including those provided by the private sector, is a natural development of our health care system. This is not a concept to be feared, it is already happening in many provinces at no additional cost to Canadians. A government monopoly is not the only way to deliver health care to Canadians. (Stephen Harper, Toronto Star, November 12, 2002)

Old but there are a few quotes like that, could be where I am remembering it from.

http://www.collectionscanada.gc.ca/e...=news&news=780

"When the Conservative government came into play we saw some headlines that they may be looking at PPPs [private-public partnerships] and talking about doing some stuff with the private sector through their [corrections] infrastructure renewal," he told the Guardian.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/07...n_1670755.html

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/feds-...money-1.967126

Like I said earlier, I don't really follow Canadian politics and that is why I asked. Where the fuck did you learn how to have a discussion?

[Toma]

Richest province in North America. All time high demand for energy.... And our Conservative corporate whores are running a deficit, while cost of living has driven average Albertan savings rates into negative territory.

Lol. Good job. A monkey would have done better IMO.

[EM2FTL]

Originally posted by Toma
Richest province in North America. All time high demand for energy.... And our Conservative corporate whores are running a deficit, while cost of living has driven average Albertan savings rates into negative territory.

Lol. Good job. A monkey would have done better IMO.

This is a federal politics thread...

[killramos]

Originally posted by Toma
Richest province in North America. All time high demand for energy.... And our Conservative corporate whores are running a deficit, while cost of living has driven average Albertan savings rates into negative territory.

Lol. Good job. A monkey would have done better IMO.

Don't disagree with you at all Toma, though this debate has centered upon federal parties and there is a difference between alberta pc's and federal conservatives.

[killramos]

In keeping with the original purpose of this thread I will leave it's here:

Liberal leader Justin Trudeau may not want the senators in a Liberal caucus any more, but they still seem like they want to be Liberals. On Wednesday morning, Trudeau announced a surprise move that all 32 Liberal members of the Upper Chamber will now be known as "formerly Liberal senators." It's a plan that sound very similar to what opposition leader Thomas Mulcair suggested in October. Trudeau said the move will reduce partisanship and make the Senate more independent.

"We have agreed that we will style ourselves as the Liberal Senate caucus," said Senator James Cowan. "I think not a lot will change." Most of the other senators seem to agree with Trudeau's move, but want to stick together.

Shocking, kicking them out of the cool kids club didn't change their political values over lunch?

They just formed a new club that Justin can't be blamed for. Thats the kind of solution to a problem that we can expect under a Trudeau government.

[Feruk]

Originally posted by killramos
-Budget balancing

Sorry what? Come again? Even in the last election he said that "deficit reduction" was the goal, not a balanced budget.
Other Conservative successes:
- Record high consumer debt
- Massive inflation of a housing bubble
- Poor economic outlook going forward
- Poor job numbers
- Over $100 billion the Conservatives issued as a bailout to Canadian banks (but called it "financial support" to make it sound like anything but a "bailout", http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2012/04...n_1466219.html)

Real "fiscal conservatist" Harper is... Some of that is the fault of the financial crisis, but as with most government fiscal policy, you don't see the results until a lot later. I suspect keeping interest rates this low this long is what we'll have to blame the Harper government for long term.

His social policies and international views are even worse. Took us from proud nation to laughing stock patsy on the world stage.

If I didn't work in the oil industry, I would never in a million years vote for these clowns. But I do, and Trudeau scares me, so unless Trudeau stops insulting the oil sands and starts talking sense, Harper for re-election!


On topic: So what if Trudeau kicked them out? They're still not elected! We still have a bunch of appointed old men making decisions for us.

[Toma]

Not really. Since I'v been making the move to the US, I've noticed that their Republicans are exactly the same as our Conservatives.

They TALK fiscal responsibility and conservatism, but deliver debt and deficit. Without fail, they cut taxes on the very wealthy, corporations, resource sector etc. Then print more money and the people fall for the imaginary prosperity. Then when shit falls apart, they blame spending and social programs, and illegals and communists.

Its hilarious.

Inequality hurts democracy, because money buys influence through lobby groups, right wing news empires like the Sun here and Fox there, and politicians directly.

And in my opinion, the conservatives are far worse than anyone in pandering to the corporates, and saying fuck you to the middle class.

[01RedDX]

.

[Xtrema]

Conservative is just Liberal with Jesus.

They are all the same.

Justin is doing this because I think some Liberal senators are about to not pass the audit.

He is just getting ahead of the problem that Harper is feeling right now.