MLA Ric McIver enters the PC leadership race

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by Darell_n
Individual human beings are making the policies and decisions and what party they belong to won't affect if somebody is a good leader or not.

As anyone who's been a manager can tell you though, even the best leader can only do so much when all their underlings are retards.

Especially when the leader can't get rid of those underlings, but those same underlings can easily have the leader ousted as their boss.

[Darell_n]

I agree, but are the underlings not voted in individually by the public?

[Cos]

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[16hypen3sp]

I'm done with PC.

I never voted for them last time and wont next time.

Every time they get a new leader, its the same ol' same ol'.

No more PC for the love of god. I am amazed that some of you have actually said your going to vote for them.

[Sugarphreak]

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[D. Dub]

The blinking makes him look nervous and shifty.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Yeah, we are downing in nearly 60 billion in debt and have a trail of scandals, a 8% provincial tax rate, and unemployment is skyrocketing... Wait... No that is BC. They have had all the "other" parties in power.

Except BC has a completely different mentality than Alberta does.

BC liberals =/= Alberta liberals. (or NDP, or whatever other party that might exist in both provinces)

[whiskas]

Originally posted by mazdavirgin
Wasn't Ric involved in some corruption allegations with real estate developers? Specifically some shady dealings involving the time he sat on the land committee? He was also heavily bank rolled by the real estate developers last election...

So you all are clamoring for more PC corruption?

Yep, Ric was practically wearing kneepads he was so ready to do the developers bidding after getting bought out by them. The last thing this province needs is someone who is so willing to get bought out by the highest bidder. Just the same PC shit all over again.

[Sugarphreak]

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[Antonito]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
True

My point was that we are not exactly doing bad, and a lot of that has to do with the PC's

IMO BC has better and more diversified resources available (Hydro, Forestry, Fruit, wine, mining, natural gas, off-shore reserves... etc), better access to world markets thanks to the coast, and a more moderate climate which appeals to people who would want to move there... yet the only thing that has screwed them over is the government.

People can slag the PC's all they want, but the fact remains that we are benefiting from the best leadership in all of Canada. I think that is why people are so cautious about change... although it is easy to take for granted.

It's always funny to me that just because they have the Liberal name, you actually think they are liberals. Brief history: in the 50s, BC Conservatives split and most went to Social Credit, with the Conservative name being tarnished during the turmoil. Then towards the end of the 80s with Vander Zalm screwing up all the members of that party started to defect to the Liberal party, as that was the only other functional party that wasn't the NDP. During the 90s with the NDP running the show the conservative wing of the Liberal party decided to take over, which brings us to the 21st century.

With the NDPs disgraceful exit, a firmly conservative Liberal party took over. They chopped union contracts, cut taxes, closed hospitals and schools, privatized a lot of services and generally did what a conservative government is supposed to do. That there is a ton of debt and an 8% tax rate is not surprising given the situation they were handed. Much like the Alberta conservatives are figuring out, you actually have to pay for things. The tax rate was higher than that when they took over but they had the self control to make cuts without going pants-on-head crazy and chopping it so badly we'd be looking like Detroit. The largest problem is that BC was going full steam ahead with a blazing hot real estate market and the Olympics right when the world economy shit itself, which left the province to finish up everything that was half started but with the legs cut out of the private funding. The Liberal party is doing its best to 'conservative' their way out of this mess, but they'd already cut so deep during the good times that any appreciable cuts now would require wheeling patients out of hospitals into the streets and telling kids in the boonies that they'd better watch a lot of Sesame Street because their school is being turned into a Tim hortons.

The diverse economy of BC is a good thing if you're comparing it to pretty much any other province but going up against Alberta it's a loss. Would you rather have a bag of gold bricks or a bag with some gold rings, some silver coins and some pennies? The only advantage would be if the price of oil tanks again, but for comparisons today it's a no brainer.

When you compare the BC Liberals and the Alberta Conservatives, they're very similar. Anti union, low taxes, pro privatization, pro business. Realistically if you swapped the people everything would be pretty much the same. Both parties are trying to be as conservative as possible while still giving the population enough services to avoid being bitterly voted out. It's a delicate balance when your voting base hates taxes but also demands medical care and schools and roads and stuff.

tl;dr go read the BC Liberal party platform and maybe you'll stop trying to say that they're a left wing party

[16hypen3sp]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
True

My point was that we are not exactly doing bad, and a lot of that has to do with the PC's

IMO BC has better and more diversified resources available (Hydro, Forestry, Fruit, wine, mining, natural gas, off-shore reserves... etc), better access to world markets thanks to the coast, and a more moderate climate which appeals to people who would want to move there... yet the only thing that has screwed them over is the government.

People can slag the PC's all they want, but the fact remains that we are benefiting from the best leadership in all of Canada. I think that is why people are so cautious about change... although it is easy to take for granted.

I think the PCs HAD great leadership. They don't now. They have had their run. The saying I have been hearing is "Grits in blue suits."

[Sugarphreak]

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[ExtraSlow]

I pledge allegiance to:

» Click image for larger version

[Antonito]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


I don't think there is a better party in BC than the one currently in power, but the fact remains they are slipping further and further into debt at an alarming rate.

Those high tax rates to deal with that is also stifling the economy and industry, no companies want to go to BC to setup because it is too expensive, and ones that are there are in a constant state of survival.

This has lead to a high unemployment rate, and the realization that the only people in BC with real spending money left is the government (and maybe Jim Patterson). This has spurred on such things as excessive regulations, expensive legislated programs, and heavy government mandated employee overhead on industry simply to extract money and create the jobs to police them.

Given that the Liberals have done everything they feel possible to lower taxes, have gladly cut services to do so, and believe in lower taxes as a foundation of good economic policy, what makes you think that there is a significant area that can be cut without doing significant damage?

Also what is this significant excessive regulation with the goal of creating government jobs? I must have missed this during their regular drives to privatize former government jobs.

Originally posted by Sugarphreak

Don't kid yourself about the potential of BC either; they have a renewable resources such as logging, fish farming and hydro that will never run out, a far reaching tourism industry, vast opportunities for mining, and certainly access to LNG and off-shore oil reserves should they ever want to develop them. It could make for a very robust and powerful economy that would easily weather market cycles and likely rival Alberta, but when you tax everything to death and throw moratoriums on half the industry from working it has no chance.

At best BC specific industries have a moderate rate of profit, depending on the exchange rate. Oil and gas is a good source of revenue, but we're competing with Alberta, so we'll always be second fiddle when they choose where to allocate funds. At this point we have no hope of matching Alberta's tax rate, or the fact that Alberta is geared specifically for o&g. At a moderate pace BC could overtake Alberta in a 100 years for a bigger slice of that pie. Anything less would require BC to be run by super geniuses and Alberta to be run by literally brain damaged people

Moratoriums are a tricky thing. Alberta is already facing steady pressure and it has a population of people that do not give a flying fuck, and are only damaging a shitty area with very few people in it anyways. If an offshore rig pops it'll be fucking up an ocean with actual wildlife and BCs biggest voter bases are filled with super duper enviro hippies. That there is any o&g now is a miracle.

An economy to weather economic cycles? Yeah, we do alright. Rival Alberta in the current economy? Literally impossible.

Originally posted by Sugarphreak

BC is a great example of what happens when you give in to pure socialism, vast numbers of unemployed that simply jump onto the tax and legislate bandwagon and sink the entire economy in the process.

If you could equate BC to a real world situation; it would be a plane crash in the arctic where the survivors are starving, no help is coming, and they are voting on who to eat next.

fucking lol, "socialism". So a province that has a very left leaning political party that actually believes in tax and spend politics, but keeps voting in a right wing party that promises significantly less. Hoo boy look at all that socialism.

What I don't get is why you don't use Quebec as an example? They actually vote for the party who promises them more government mandated freebies.

[Sugarphreak]

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[Antonito]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
They can't cut tax, they are 60 Billion dollars in debt, which is nearly 6 Billion more than last year... my entire point of bringing up BC is that the government has completely and utterly fucked the province; and we take the risk of destabilizing what we have now if we vote in an entire new group of unknowns.

but they're essentially the same governments. Same policies, same beliefs. You'd have a point if you brought up the NDP, but that was 15 years ago

Originally posted by Sugarphreak

From what I understand WCB is going crazy with fines and inspections (I've heard of jobs sites being shut down because of wooden railings being 1" too short, or because of unrealistic evacuation plans in remote areas), many companies are being turned away from government bids because they don't have certificates or safety programs (which isn't even legislated as being required, they are just government make work programs) and trying to enforce things that don't even exist in the legislation.

A lot of people are starting to wonder why they even own a business in BC anymore because the government has made it so difficult and expensive to operate.

I could get into a lot more specific details, but I'd like to leave it at that for this.

you understand wrong. Flat out wrong. I've never seen WCB shut down a job for anything less than a gas leak or death. Improper handrails, fall safety violations, unprotected excavations, all have been seen by WCB and it resulted in maybe work being stopped in that exact area until the legitimate threat has been fixed, and I'm talking about guaranteed death.

I personally am annoyed at the increasing safety precautions, but the government is the least of my concerns. The strictest precautions are from the private companies. PCL is always a couple steps ahead of what WCB wants, and their safety programs are what's being emulated by government standards. I was working on a government job when they decided to literally copy PCLs standard of daily PSIs. They took PCL booklet, crossed off PCLs name and put in their own and made copies. The WCB is currently 10' high without fall protection, PCL and others are 6'. WCB is making the transition to 6' soon. Safety regulations are being driven by insurance premiums and civil liability. WCB is just playing catch up. Thanks private industry lol.

I heard a lot of complaints about the NDP possibly being voted in, now the main reason not to stay in BC is because the profit margins are so much higher in Alberta, not a peep about taxes as they would be a much lower financial incentive.

Originally posted by Sugarphreak

It comes down to government management, Alberta can certainly take a lot of idiocy... but if they start piling on the debt and let spending go out of control we will end up with a provincial tax and debt too.

If BC hadn't fucked their industries over, and hadn't dug one of the biggest debt holes per capita in North America, they would be doing just fine.

I disagree, if BC had supported their industries and had better policy, I think they would actually be ahead of Alberta; they were miles ahead in terms of resource development for a long time. Oil is just a resource like any other, all Alberta has done is back it and market it into what it is today.

People in the logging industry in BC back in the day used to make as much dough as O&G (adjusting for inflation of course). Tons of jobs, entire towns supported, export and trade with countries around the world.

If BC had zero debt, and a pro-industry attitude... they would rival Alberta. So we may have to agree to disagree on this.

this completely ignores the price of oil right now. If the Liberals cut every single tax on forestry it still wouldn't come within a country mile of being as profitable as oil is currently.

Originally posted by Sugarphreak

As for my original point... PC's put Alberta in the position they are now, and it isn't like gold bricks dropped from the sky. It was built and supported... if they find O&G reserves in BC that were just as big, they would never even get it off the ground and profitable with the protest, land claims, and greedy government hands.

Mostly because Quebec actually has a lot of industry (Foresty, Hydro, Power, Manufacturing, Shipping...) and it is operation and backed strongly by the government, not stifled with nanny laws. It also helps they hold the rest of Canada in a noose of fear so they get stupid amounts of federal funding.

BC and Alberta are a good comparison simply because they are both newer provinces, both have resources most countries can only dream about, and both and have clearly different governments for better or worse.

Quebec doesn't have nanny laws? The creators of the bilingual language laws? Are you just saying stuff for fun now? WTF?

You're kind of correct about the comparison between bc and Alberta, the problem is instead of saying "see what happens when you let the NDP run wild and don't viciously stamp out environmentalists, the right wing government is fighting an uphill battle", you say "the current government are tax and spend socialists, and here are made up scenarios to support this fantastical delusion of mine"

[Seth1968]

Alberta: One of richest demographics in North America (if not the most, yet we're in the hole

How many more times are we going to believe the promises and platforms?

I don't see any way out of this other than an all out taxpayer revolt or provincial Direct Democracy.

RCMP: Do your fucking job and charge these people.