Cyclist doesn't want to pay for damages in accident

[max_boost]

Originally posted by codetrap


As for enjoying the debate? I can't argue that at all. I love to argue, even when I'm wrong.

[codetrap]

Originally posted by phil98z24
...that's not true at all. I'm not sure why you're grinding his gears about this and telling him he can't read the Act when you haven't had a read through the entire thing and it's sub-regulations, but here you go:

Use of Highway Rules of the Road Regulation

Division 4
Cycles
Rights and duties of operator
75 Unless the context otherwise requires, a person who is
operating a cycle on a highway has all the rights and is subject to
all the duties of a person driving a motor vehicle under Part 1 and
this Part and Division 2 of Part 5 of the Act.

Cyclists are always convicted under the TSA for the same offences are those in any other vehicle, motor or otherwise, and they do have demerits assessed. Most bicycle couriers have suspended licenses because of this.

Consider this a learning experience for all involved.

That's really interesting. So how do you account for Service Alberta responding and stating that they can't be convicted? I also wasn't aware of bicycle couriers having suspended driver's licenses. So, my question to you is this? did they lose those licenses to demerits, or because they didn't pay their fines they were given under the City of Calgary rules? Like if I don't pay my CP tickets I can't renew my license?

So, I'm looking at it, and Part 1 governs all the basic rules, but no penalties...Right? Part 2, Division 4 is the part you quoted. Part5, Division 2 is "Miscellaneous" is about Tampering, Removal of Damaged Vehicles, Advertising, Unauthorized Traffic Signs, Vandalism to Traffic Control Devices. There's also a section on offenses, but a lot of them simply wouldn't apply to a bicycle.

As for why I'm grinding his gears, it's because he refuses to back his points up. He hasn't read any of the act, or he'd be quoting it back to me and telling me I'm wrong. At least you said to me, "Hey, you're wrong and here's why." I will fully admit I'm learning about this as I go along, and I'm open to being schooled.

Incidentally, would you want to enforce bicycle registration on kids? I know that's a personal question, but it was cited as one of the reasons that Toronto shut it down. They continually had negative interactions with children who were unconsciously contravening the law.

[Khyron]

Originally posted by phil98z24

Division 4
Cycles
Rights and duties of operator
75 Unless the context otherwise requires, a person who is
operating a cycle on a highway has all the rights and is subject to
all the duties of a person driving a motor vehicle under Part 1 and
this Part and Division 2 of Part 5 of the Act.

Cyclists are always convicted under the TSA for the same offences are those in any other vehicle, motor or otherwise, and they do have demerits assessed. Most bicycle couriers have suspended licenses because of this.

Consider this a learning experience for all involved.

I'm not required by law to carry ID, nor have a drivers license to ride a bike. How does that work if I fail to produce something I don't need to provide (or cannot).

I'm not saying you're wrong - there was a case of somebody getting an impared driving charge on a bicycle, as well as a few guys who have gotten true speeding tickets on the road. I'm just curious how the logistic work of someone who has ID vs someone who doesn't. I don't carry my DL when I go on long rides, but I do when riding to work.

[JRSC00LUDE]

Hang on a second, I can get a DUI on a bicycle one of those summer nights when I ride down to a pub and have a night of pints?

That's fucking stupid. Guess I'll take a skateboard next year? Mind you, if being responsible carries the same penalty as a car I may as well just take it.

Is that serious?

[theken]

That's a good point, if you get a DUI on your unmotorized vehicle against your class 5 license might as well drive your car then if it is the same penalty. That's retarded.

[revelations]

CPS TRAFFIC DIVISION

http://www.calgary.ca/cps/Pages/Traf...d-driving.aspx

Can you receive an impaired on a bike?

No.

[JRSC00LUDE]

^ Good! That really wasn't adding up to me. Obviously if you were hammered and being a danger to an idiot a Public Intoxication or something would be appropriate but man, if that impaired story were true I'd have really wondered WTF was wrong.

[revelations]

Originally posted by Khyron


I'm not required by law to carry ID, nor have a drivers license to ride a bike. How does that work if I fail to produce something I don't need to provide (or cannot).

I'm not saying you're wrong - there was a case of somebody getting an impared driving charge on a bicycle, as well as a few guys who have gotten true speeding tickets on the road. I'm just curious how the logistic work of someone who has ID vs someone who doesn't. I don't carry my DL when I go on long rides, but I do when riding to work.

You just have to be honest when asked for full name and DOB.

PS I carry some type of ID on me so that I could be identified to next of kin in case of traumatic brain injury.

[codetrap]

Ok, so this doesn't add up to me. You can't get a DUI on a bike, which seems to imply that what you're doing on your bike can't affect your motor vehicle license. Which plays exactly to what Service Alberta publicly stated.

phil98z24? Are you sure about the bike couriers? Is there some specialized bylaw that they're subject to?

[16hypen3sp]

http://forums.beyond.ca/st2/conseque...=&pagenumber=1

[phil98z24]

Service Alberta is wrong or something is being misinterpreted. I just went through this again last week, so it's still fresh in my mind. I see this most commonly with bike couriers, but just last week it was for another person driving a bike like an idiot who I laid a number of charges on, and they went against his driver's record.

Criminal law and rules governing vehicle operations (statutory and regulatory law) are very different. The criminal code specifies what is considered a motor vehicle and what isn't, and the TSA also has its own definition - but they arent interchangeable. The definitions work within their own acts.

On to the next part.. The division of the TSA referred to in UHRORR speaks to observance of rules of the road in subsection 1, and goes on from there. It isn't referring to itself, it's referring to the TSA when it says the Act. That section, along with the others referred to, says that bicycles must adhere to the same rules of the road; lights, stop signs, yielding, signals, etc etc.

That brings me to the next part: if you have broken a law, you must be able to identify yourself. Now, I haven't read it and I'm not sure, but I THINK you need to produce a DL only when driving a motor vehicle, not a bicycle... But if stopped for an offence, you still need to identify yourself. Whether that's verbally, government ID, whatever.

As far as your last question about kids and bikes... I dunno man. You can enforce laws without punishing people but at the same time you have to leave certain things alone. I'm not sure where I stand on it.

[C_Dave45]

...

[16hypen3sp]

phil, can I get a DUI while riding a pedal bike from the local watering hole to my house? A DUI that goes against my DL? Or do I get charged with something different?

And I mean drunk... beyond .08. What if I'm riding on the sidewalk instead of the street?

Some clarification would be nice as some people say you can't, some people say you can. Have you ever rolled up to this scenario before?

Sorry for the derail.

[Black Gts]

To continue the previous comments if I'm driving really drunk but slowly on the sidewalk am I bike? Lol I'm kidding but I've always believed you could get a DUI on a bike, it doesn't make sense but if rules if the road apply it's fair, but I should be able to be on a pathway and fall every 5 feet on my way home. (on a pedal bike obviously )

[codetrap]

Originally posted by phil98z24
Service Alberta is wrong or something is being misinterpreted. I just went through this again last week, so it's still fresh in my mind. I see this most commonly with bike couriers, but just last week it was for another person driving a bike like an idiot who I laid a number of charges on, and they went against his driver's record.

Criminal law and rules governing vehicle operations (statutory and regulatory law) are very different. The criminal code specifies what is considered a motor vehicle and what isn't, and the TSA also has its own definition - but they aren't interchangeable. The definitions work within their own acts.

On to the next part.. The division of the TSA referred to in UHRORR speaks to observance of rules of the road in subsection 1, and goes on from there. It isn't referring to itself, it's referring to the TSA when it says the Act. That section, along with the others referred to, says that bicycles must adhere to the same rules of the road; lights, stop signs, yielding, signals, etc etc.

That brings me to the next part: if you have broken a law, you must be able to identify yourself. Now, I haven't read it and I'm not sure, but I THINK you need to produce a DL only when driving a motor vehicle, not a bicycle... But if stopped for an offense, you still need to identify yourself. Whether that's verbally, government ID, whatever.

As far as your last question about kids and bikes... I dunno man. You can enforce laws without punishing people but at the same time you have to leave certain things alone. I'm not sure where I stand on it.

Can you keep us posted about what charges actually stick? What would you have charged him with if he didn't have a drivers license? I was pretty careful to say "convicted" and not charged in my previous posts on the TSA offenses because I have heard of people getting tickets, but from the anecdotal evidence they've all been tossed. As far as Service Alberta goes, I'll email them myself and ask them and then post the results.

I completely agree about being able to identify yourself, even if it wasn't a legal requirement, it only makes sense from a safety/family standpoint. If I crater on my bike, I'd sure like my family to be able to know I'm in the hospital.

I also think the enforcement thing for kids is a bitch. In my mind, it's one of the major sticking points of trying to license/insure bikes because kids just not equipped to handle that type of responsibility. If an officer wanted to be a dick, he could head to the playground and wreak havoc by doing safety/ID/registration checks and fining/impounding kids bikes. I don't honestly think that would happen, but it could under the rules, just like setting up a checkstop. It might work for adults, or older teens, but for a 3 year old with training wheels? It'd be a nightmare to administer and enforce.

On the flip side, if I am totally off base on the applicability of the current laws and you can get TSA convictions on bicyclists then there's nothing to be gained by a license/registration/plate scheme for bicycles. With the possible exception of slightly easier identification I guess, if you can see the plate. Though my personal experience with a custom plate I put on my daughters bike would suggest that it wouldn't be worth it. The entire plate was only 4 inches wide and had 6 letters on it for her name. Pretty damn small and tough to read at real distance, but it fit under her seat.

Thanks for the response man. Much appreciated.

[codetrap]

Driver Fitness <[email protected]>

8:05 AM (3 hours ago)

to me, TRANS, Jennifer, Kelley, Terry, Olga, Rosemarie

Thank you for your provincial government web inquiry.

Cyclists are required to follow the rules of the road in accordance with the Use of Highway and Rules of the Road Regulation. As such, they are subject to tickets and fines for traffic violations. Cyclists who are walking beside or pushing their bicycle are considered by law to be a pedestrian and required to follow rules as they apply to pedestrians.

The only violations placed on a driving record would be for convictions related directly to the operation of a motor vehicle. Any ticket issued to an individual on a bicycle would not be placed on a driving record. If a violation is added to their driving record while cycling, an individual may contact Driver Fitness and Monitoring to have their record reviewed and the conviction removed.

For further information please contact Alberta Transportation at 780-427-8230, toll free anywhere in Alberta by dialing 310-0000. Our office hours are 8:15 a.m. until 4:30 p.m., Monday through Friday.

Thank you for using our web services.





----- Original Message -----
From: Jim <[email protected]>
To: <[email protected]>
Sent: Mon, 16 Feb 2015 08:52:10 -0700
Subject: Bicycle Traffic Tickets [InteractionID:ddb8afdc-d54a-474e-93ab-94bf46aa2b10]

Hello,

I would like to know if getting a speeding ticket or any other traffic tickets under the TSA while on my bicycle can affect my motor vehicle license and cause me to have demerits. Up to and including a DUI.

Thanks,

Jim

[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by codetrap
Driver Fitness &lt;[email protected]&gt;

8:05 AM (3 hours ago)

to me, TRANS, Jennifer, Kelley, Terry, Olga, Rosemarie

Thank you for your provincial government web inquiry.

Cyclists are required to follow the rules of the road in accordance with the Use of Highway and Rules of the Road Regulation. As such, they are subject to tickets and fines for traffic violations. Cyclists who are walking beside or pushing their bicycle are considered by law to be a pedestrian and required to follow rules as they apply to pedestrians.

The only violations placed on a driving record would be for convictions related directly to the operation of a motor vehicle. Any ticket issued to an individual on a bicycle would not be placed on a driving record. If a violation is added to their driving record while cycling, an individual may contact Driver Fitness and Monitoring to have their record reviewed and the conviction removed.

For further information please contact Alberta Transportation at 780-427-8230, toll free anywhere in Alberta by dialing 310-0000. Our office hours are 8:15 a.m. until 4:30 p.m., Monday through Friday.

Thank you for using our web services.

Good to know! Thanks for the follow up, Codetrap.