$30 barrel oil?

[sexualbanana]

Can I buy a couple barrels to keep in my parents garage? Make a couple bucks of profit in a few years when it comes back up....

[Cos]

.

[Toma]

Originally posted by sputnik
The Saudis aren't fighting for cash.

They are trying to retain or even grow their market share.

Sure they are. At this rate, they will be broke by 2018. T

To save themselves, they need to maintain production. They need income.

They are rumored to be the only large scale producer to have reserve capacity, everyone else is pumping flat out, from all apperances.

US has gone from something like 50% of gdp spent on energy imports, to 1% in just 10 years.

If this keeps up, as Iran and other oil grows, Saudi will have no choice but to crank production to the rumored max of 12m a day (roughly 20% increase)/

[Toma]

Originally posted by Cos
How this is even legal is still beyond me. Gas and oil prices are the definition of a cartel. Unbelievable.

Capitalism....

Dictatorship run by those with control of the money.

There are no free markets. Never have been, never can be, outside of maybe a garage sale. Even the father, Adam Smith came to that conclusion. Eventually, those with money and power will fix the rules so they can get more money and power.

I don't think there are better examples than banking and oil.

[rage2]

Originally posted by Toma
Sure they are. At this rate, they will be broke by 2018.

This is true.

Originally posted by Toma
To save themselves, they need to maintain production. They need income.

This is not true. I don't get why you don't understand this part. You even said there are no free markets in the next post, and understand that this is all a game to oil producing nations.

It's quite simple. Maintain production, oversupply, prices drop, bring in less money than they spend, they're broke by 2018.

Decrease production, aka status quo prior to 2014, supply dwindles, prices rise, bring in more money than they spend, race around in Beverly Hills in LaFerraris.

Even if they win this war and take over all of US production numbers and double their output (they can't produce at that rate, but let's just say they can), they'll still bring in less money than lower production and high prices.

It's a big dick measuring contest right now. Just sucks for Canada to have to get fucked in the process.

I guess another way for Saudi Arabia to survive low prices and still fuck over everyone else would be to cut public spending, but look how well that turned out for the PCs in Alberta.

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by Toma


Capitalism....

Dictatorship run by those with control of the money.

There are no free markets. Never have been, never can be, outside of maybe a garage sale. Even the father, Adam Smith came to that conclusion. Eventually, those with money and power will fix the rules so they can get more money and power.

I don't think there are better examples than banking and oil.

Now a slap on the hand for not including genocide, slavery, and all such things that "The Gap" (and their idiot followers) that you don't see on main stream media.

However, it might be looking good Toma. Pilger hasn't been murdered.

[sputnik]

Originally posted by rage2
It's quite simple. Maintain production, oversupply, prices drop, bring in less money than they spend, they're broke by 2018.

Decrease production, aka status quo prior to 2014, supply dwindles, prices rise, bring in more money than they spend, race around in Beverly Hills in LaFerraris.

Even if they win this war and take over all of US production numbers and double their output (they can't produce at that rate, but let's just say they can), they'll still bring in less money than lower production and high prices.

It's a big dick measuring contest right now. Just sucks for Canada to have to get fucked in the process.

I guess another way for Saudi Arabia to survive low prices and still fuck over everyone else would be to cut public spending, but look how well that turned out for the PCs in Alberta.

The bet that the Saudis are making is that other countries cut production and raise the global price before the Saudis are forced to.

[suntan]

Originally posted by Cos
How this is even legal is still beyond me. Gas and oil prices are the definition of a cartel. Unbelievable.

There's a world capitalism police? Wut?

OPEC... The C stands for Cartel!






(yes I know it's supposed to be Countries )

[ickyflex]

Opec and Goldman Sachs both forecasting oil won't see high oil for 15-25 years lol.

I vote bs on that one.

[Toma]

Originally posted by rage2

This is true.


This is not true. I don't get why you don't understand this part. You even said there are no free markets in the next post, and understand that this is all a game to oil producing nations.

It's quite simple. Maintain production, oversupply, prices drop, bring in less money than they spend, they're broke by 2018.

Decrease production, aka status quo prior to 2014, supply dwindles, prices rise, bring in more money than they spend, race around in Beverly Hills in LaFerraris.

Even if they win this war and take over all of US production numbers and double their output (they can't produce at that rate, but let's just say they can), they'll still bring in less money than lower production and high prices.

It's a big dick measuring contest right now. Just sucks for Canada to have to get fucked in the process.

I guess another way for Saudi Arabia to survive low prices and still fuck over everyone else would be to cut public spending, but look how well that turned out for the PCs in Alberta.

You are guessing about the affects of a production cut on overall price, as is anyone else, and therefore their potential revenue change.

At current production, Saudi needs about $85 a barrel to run the country. Their influence in the world market is dwindling. Cutting 10% from production (which is huge), which would have had a huge affect 10 years ago, doesn't have the same effect today, and their minister has said they would lose more than they would gain by any price change.

Everyone else is pumping flat out. Saudi can go a bit higher yet (or, that is it's official position). If they were really at war, they would be doing what everyone else is doing.... full out.

mid east stability, Libya, Iran pumping etc.... is the bigger cause.

Look for a mid east bullshit war coming up.

[rage2]

Originally posted by Toma
You are guessing about the affects of a production cut on overall price, as is anyone else, and therefore their potential revenue change.

At current production, Saudi needs about $85 a barrel to run the country. Their influence in the world market is dwindling. Cutting 10% from production (which is huge), which would have had a huge affect 10 years ago, doesn't have the same effect today, and their minister has said they would lose more than they would gain by any price change.

Everyone else is pumping flat out. Saudi can go a bit higher yet (or, that is it's official position). If they were really at war, they would be doing what everyone else is doing.... full out.

mid east stability, Libya, Iran pumping etc.... is the bigger cause.

Look for a mid east bullshit war coming up.

It's not a guess. It's supply and demand, and the cartel controlling prices since forever. I mean, the whole reason prices collapsed was because of oversupply.

Here's a good article that explains it:

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jamescon...-saudi-arabia/

Like sputnik says, it's a game of who blinks first right now.

[ickyflex]

It can also be a game of when someone within OPEC gets tired of this and threatens Saudi.

Civil unrest would not surprise me as there are many countries within OPEC bleeding super hard right now.

[Toma]

are you suggesting supply and demand is linear, and irrespective of total world production volume?

Anyway. I think we are off topic.

The fact that the whole world is pumping at full volume EXCEPT Saudi, is proof they arent at "war" with anyone. tin foil hats not withstanding

[frizzlefry]

Originally posted by Toma
are you suggesting supply and demand is linear, and irrespective of total world production volume?

Anyway. I think we are off topic.

The fact that the whole world is pumping at full volume EXCEPT Saudi, is proof they arent at "war" with anyone. tin foil hats not withstanding

You should clarify. "The fact that the world is pumping at full profitable volume as dictated by the global market value". The global market value being defined by a country and region where ethics, the value you blow your trumpet about, are almost non-existent. The containers are full. There is very little room to pump oil into them. But the Saudis, who JUST let women start driving, are overfilling the storage capacity and driving down the price on purpose. Yes, they have lots and it's cheap to suck out. So they are. They are and are at war. They are driving their own price down to attack other free nations. That's an economic war.

Your little boner you have about oil prices and how it's screwing up harper's CONservatives is a direct result of an oppressive dictatorship over-producing their oil to fuck over other oil producers who live in countries that have let women drive for years. And *gasp* vote. Your CONservative vitriol only has any economic merit because of a country who openly oppresses gays, women and Christians. Your tongue profits from an oppressive regime's economic warfare. Pat yourself on the back.

I usually don't engage you because you are an idiot but a lot of your source material these days is solely due to a global market being dictated by some guys who keep endangered leopards as pets, light cigars with oil and won't let their daughters drive. They are over pumping on purpose driving reserves down and thus lowering the price. Yeah, that's economic war. They are fucking up the market on purpose. Reducing their profits to screw free nation economies over.

Side note, I do think that how this effects the oil sands should be somewhat secondary. Cheapest oil to pull in the country is the offshore play. And most are floating platforms. Cheap to move when a well is dry. And they are run by nice friendly democratic countrie(s). All it takes is a bomb in the right place in the middle east to cause the Arab's oil prices to tank due to instability. Down the toilet. Along with Toma's CONservative economy BS.

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by frizzlefry

Your little boner you have about oil prices and how it's screwing up harper's CONservatives is a direct result of an oppressive dictatorship over-producing their oil to fuck over other oil producers who live in countries that have let women drive for years. And *gasp* vote. Your CONservative vitriol only has any economic merit because of a country who openly oppresses gays, women and Christians. Your tongue profits from an oppressive regime's economic warfare. Pat yourself on the back.

You speak of nuances.

[ZenOps]

Originally posted by sexualbanana
Can I buy a couple barrels to keep in my parents garage? Make a couple bucks of profit in a few years when it comes back up....

Sure, as long as your garage is outside of Alberta, its a good plan.

US has already filled up their SPR at a brim full 713.5 million barrels.

http://energy.gov/fe/services/petrol...facts-and-faqs

Now, as to the logic that one would pump oil out of and oilwell in Alberta, simply to put it back into the ground in Alberta... Well thats just silly and ridiculously wasteful, like opening up a beer can to fill up a beer keg, so that you can drink it later.

The US can invade Canada any time now. If the US trusted Canada at all, they wouldn't even bother hoarding.

If Khadafi was crazy for hoarding 144 tons of gold, then the US is more bigger crazy for hoarding 99 million tons of oil.

[Toma]

Originally posted by frizzlefry


You should clarify. "The fact that the world is pumping at full profitable volume as dictated by the global market value". The global market value being defined by a country and region where ethics, the value you blow your trumpet about, are almost non-existent. The containers are full. There is very little room to pump oil into them. But the Saudis, who JUST let women start driving, are overfilling the storage capacity and driving down the price on purpose. Yes, they have lots and it's cheap to suck out. So they are. They are and are at war. They are driving their own price down to attack other free nations. That's an economic war.

Your little boner you have about oil prices and how it's screwing up harper's CONservatives is a direct result of an oppressive dictatorship over-producing their oil to fuck over other oil producers who live in countries that have let women drive for years. And *gasp* vote. Your CONservative vitriol only has any economic merit because of a country who openly oppresses gays, women and Christians. Your tongue profits from an oppressive regime's economic warfare. Pat yourself on the back.

I usually don't engage you because you are an idiot but a lot of your source material these days is solely due to a global market being dictated by some guys who keep endangered leopards as pets, light cigars with oil and won't let their daughters drive. They are over pumping on purpose driving reserves down and thus lowering the price. Yeah, that's economic war. They are fucking up the market on purpose. Reducing their profits to screw free nation economies over.

Side note, I do think that how this effects the oil sands should be somewhat secondary. Cheapest oil to pull in the country is the offshore play. And most are floating platforms. Cheap to move when a well is dry. And they are run by nice friendly democratic countrie(s). All it takes is a bomb in the right place in the middle east to cause the Arab's oil prices to tank due to instability. Down the toilet. Along with Toma's CONservative economy BS.

Artificially decreasing output during high prices is proof you are wrong. The proof would be the Saudis inverse supply curve hahahaha

Duh.

Now that their influence has waned, and they need money, market forces actually start to work, and you guys cry "dictatorship"!!!

hahahaha

Duhx2

Now, no argument from me they are buck ass fackwords dictators, nice to see it took the price of oil for you degenerates to stop wanting to support them and let Harper sell them guns.... it wasn't the people, wasn't the oppression.... but you know, dare to let market forces dictate a market, and yeah!! DICTATORS!!!

Hilarouis.

Instead of Harper supporting the Saudi dictators, empowering them, selling them weapons... maybe some sanctions would be in order, then you can have your precious O&G job back

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by ZenOps


Now, as to the logic that one would pump oil out of and oilwell in Alberta, simply to put it back into the ground in Alberta... Well thats just silly and ridiculously wasteful, like opening up a beer can to fill up a beer keg, so that you can drink it later.

Except this isn't what we do (not all of it anyways).

We dig it out of the ground, and then process it.

Oilsands are a completely worthless commodity unless there is high demand for oil. And you can't just start and stop an oilsands plant, but you can store fresh crude out of the ground from a flowing well.

Originally posted by Toma



Artificially decreasing output during high prices is proof you are wrong.

If you decrease supply, and still end up with the same amount of money, seems to me they are doing it right with a resource that is finite.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[ickyflex]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak

(Toma)