UNODC in talks to decriminalise all drugs world wide.

[FixedGear]

^who cares, what gives you the right to enforce your values on other adults? Not to mention how the black market has ruined societies with violence, murders, and prison sentences.

I lived on the us-mexico border for a few years... No one from Canada can tell me drugs should be illegal because its safer or better for society.

[frizzlefry]

Originally posted by FixedGear
^who cares, what gives you the right to enforce your values on other adults? Not to mention how the black market has ruined societies with violence, murders, and prison sentences.

I lived on the us-mexico border for a few years... No one from Canada can tell me drugs should be illegal because its safer or better for society.

You talk as if someone who uses Meth acts like an adult. . At least a junkie is less likely to experience a psychotic episode. I am a big proponent of stopping the war on drug users. I don't want to jail them. But seriously, some drugs are dangerous. You would be cool with legalizing PCP? Bath Salts? Meth? That shit ruins people. There is absolutely an argument for decriminalizing heroin to encourage treatment and legalizing/taxing weed. Hell, LSD even. But try and regulate that...

But some drugs people have no business using.

[FixedGear]

Yes, I think it should all be legalized, regulated, prevented, and treated. People are going to do it whether its legal or not.

[rob the knob]

Originally posted by 89coupe
I think this would be amazing. Criminal organizations around the world would blow away like the wind.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk...-a6699851.html

amazing?


» Click image for larger version

[frizzlefry]

Originally posted by FixedGear
Yes, I think it should all be legalized, regulated, prevented, and treated. People are going to do it whether its legal or not.

Big difference between legalized and decriminalization. Your words prevented and treated fall into the decriminalization camp. Legalized and regulated fall into the legalized camp.

Treatment would be near impossible with a legalized substance, from a government standpoint. IE alcoholics. Legal, massive issues with treatment. Heavy reliance on private organizations. Still a big societal issue. Imagine if alcoholics acted like meth heads. Would be a BIG PROBLEM.

Now decriminalization on the other hand. Allows for forced treatment, control of addicts while not treating them like criminals.

Responsible use of alcohol is very possible and in wide practice. Responsible use of meth isn't something I see as a possibility.

Edit: Good antidote. Craig Ferguson, who has been 20 years sober from alcohol, said it best: "An alcoholic will steal your purse, take the money and get drunk. And feel like shit and then drink more to get over the guilt. A drug addict will steal it....then help you look for the purse."

Some addictions are worse than others. I worked with an alcoholic for 10 years, had no idea. Until his thermos full of vodka spilled everywhere. Jig was up. I can't see a meth addict functioning the same way. Some drugs are worse than others, blanket statements like legalize it all are dangerous IMO.

[FixedGear]

Originally posted by frizzlefry


Big difference between legalized and decriminalization. Your words prevented and treated fall into the decriminalization camp. Legalized and regulated fall into the legalized camp.

You mean like alcohol and tobacco?

[revelations]

I support 100% legalization = more revenue from taxes and thus, more education of users of the harm of these substances at an early age.

Its not going to stop the crack-heads at Macs, but hopefully create a new generation of people who are aware of the various types of mind-altering drugs, and their dangers - especially at an early age.

[frizzlefry]

Originally posted by FixedGear


You mean like alcohol and tobacco?

So alcohol and tobacco = same impact on the body as meth and Crack. Got it.

Somehow I get the impression that pro legalize everything in this thread are pot heads who can't tell their dicks from their elbows. Anything to legalize weed.

[frizzlefry]

Originally posted by revelations
I support 100% legalization = more revenue from taxes and thus, more education of users of the harm of these substances at an early age.

Its not going to stop the crack-heads at Macs, but hopefully create a new generation of people who are aware of the various types of mind-altering drugs, and their dangers - especially at an early age.

But the crack heads at macs is why we are having this discussion. If they were just stoned kids legislation of pot alone would be a no brainer.

The crack-heads at Macs are the societal issue bringing up this debate. Trying to fix that type of problem. And you just said legalization wouldn't help.

Decriminalization would.

[dubhead]

Originally posted by frizzlefry


You talk as if someone who uses Meth acts like an adult. . At least a junkie is less likely to experience a psychotic episode. I am a big proponent of stopping the war on drug users. I don't want to jail them. But seriously, some drugs are dangerous. You would be cool with legalizing PCP? Bath Salts? Meth? That shit ruins people. There is absolutely an argument for decriminalizing heroin to encourage treatment and legalizing/taxing weed. Hell, LSD even. But try and regulate that...

But some drugs people have no business using.

The thing with bath salts and a laundry list of similar drugs is they only exist because they were custom built to mimic other drugs that are illegal but changed enough that they could be sold in the grey market. The problem of course is the alterations always seem to have very nasty side affects.

Sure if you smoke or mainline Meth you're likely to go into full junkie mode pretty quick there are however other ways to take it with out the extreme affects. PCP I will agree is bat shit crazy and likely might be a place to draw the line

[Robin Goodfellow]

Originally posted by dubhead

PCP I will agree is bat shit crazy and likely might be a place to draw the line

PCP is hardly batshit crazy. It's a pretty shitty drug, and has virtually no redeeming features. I don't know that it's that harmful, either, though.

Yes, there's the yearly smoked-PCP-and-fought-with-cops story, but it's pretty far from an epidemic.

I guess it was interesting back in grandads time when there wasn't so much choice.

Can't fucking believe PCP is still a 'thing'.

[ZenOps]

Anything in too large an amount can be lethal. Water overdose is possible and well documented.

[Feruk]

Originally posted by frizzlefry
Some drugs are more dangerous than others. Some drugs when overdosed put a person in a coma. Some when overdosed put people into a violent psychotic episode then they die. Those drugs should not be legal.

All drugs are not equal. There are drugs that make people dangerous. This guy was on a small amount of PCP.

I don't disagree that some drugs are worse, but that has nothing to do with making them legal vs not. IMO we should be looking at usage rates. If you make it legal, there's a good chance less people will use them. Not intuitive, but Amsterdam's a perfect case study. If you legalize a drug with some horrible side effects, but the end result is less people use it, that's a win.

[theken]

Legalization leads to controlled doses, there was a video I watched on heroin addicts that some country (I forget which one) set up places for them to go get injected, clean proper amounts, and helped them get jobs instead of being in the street. If you set it up where heroin addicts and drug addicts get controlled amounts that are clean, they can lead productive lives if they aren't scraping together blow jobs to get their fix. Banning substances that are a personal choice is retarded, you ban drugs and criminals take over, people get killed. Yes there is black market booE and cigarettes, but to what extent? Are people getting murdered over bathtub moonshine? Are they getting murdered over their tobacco crops? Never heard of this before and if it's a problem it's news to me

[g-m]

Originally posted by sabad66
I agree with the view that all drugs (yes, including "hard" drugs&quot should be legal. Almost all of the negatives around drugs are actually a consequence of them being illegal. For example:
- criminals getting rich and not paying taxes
- violence due to above.. take away their money and gangs will be no more
- people don't know the long term effects because researchers aren't allowed to study them
- overdoses due to inconsistent purity and/or cutting agents
- addictions because people are too afraid/embarrassed to get help before its too late
- people that could have turned out to be successful members of society having their lives ruined with a criminal record over a non-violent "crime"
- families destroyed/shamed because someone is in jail

Besides all the above problems, the #1 reason IMO is basic freedom. Why should anyone/government dictate what a free person can/can't put in their own body? I personally don't have any desire to snort coke or smoke meth or inject heroin, but if someone else wants to do it safely on their own without harming anyone else and with their own money then by all means go ahead. They are going to find a way to do it anyways, so why should they have to go buy something on the street from a criminal to do this instead of paying a legit business that can guarantee purity and pay taxes?

Just look at all the recent fentanyl deaths and all of the people dying of overdoses at raves/festivals. These are real people that are brothers, sisters, sons, daughters, parents to someone. Most of them dead because some criminal somewhere along the line lied about what they were selling.

I think society will eventually get to the point of full legalization, but not for at least another 40 years. Decriminalization is a good first step though... at least it solves some of the issues above

sorry for what seems like a Seth/Toma type rant... I have a few family members/friends (mostly in the US) that have been thrown in jail/overdosed so I have thought this through a few times

+1 I think Mr Frizzle has lost this one

[A790]

Originally posted by sabad66
I agree with the view that all drugs (yes, including "hard" drugs&quot should be legal. Almost all of the negatives around drugs are actually a consequence of them being illegal. For example:
- criminals getting rich and not paying taxes
- violence due to above.. take away their money and gangs will be no more
- people don't know the long term effects because researchers aren't allowed to study them
- overdoses due to inconsistent purity and/or cutting agents
- addictions because people are too afraid/embarrassed to get help before its too late
- people that could have turned out to be successful members of society having their lives ruined with a criminal record over a non-violent "crime"
- families destroyed/shamed because someone is in jail

Besides all the above problems, the #1 reason IMO is basic freedom. Why should anyone/government dictate what a free person can/can't put in their own body? I personally don't have any desire to snort coke or smoke meth or inject heroin, but if someone else wants to do it safely on their own without harming anyone else and with their own money then by all means go ahead. They are going to find a way to do it anyways, so why should they have to go buy something on the street from a criminal to do this instead of paying a legit business that can guarantee purity and pay taxes?

Just look at all the recent fentanyl deaths and all of the people dying of overdoses at raves/festivals. These are real people that are brothers, sisters, sons, daughters, parents to someone. Most of them dead because some criminal somewhere along the line lied about what they were selling.

I think society will eventually get to the point of full legalization, but not for at least another 40 years. Decriminalization is a good first step though... at least it solves some of the issues above

sorry for what seems like a Seth/Toma type rant... I have a few family members/friends (mostly in the US) that have been thrown in jail/overdosed so I have thought this through a few times

I agree with you.

I also find it curious that many people seem to think that making something legal means that it's suddenly super accessible. Last I checked, it's almost as easy to get E or MDMA as it is to get booze. I don't see how it being illegal has kept the substances out of anybody's hands that wanted them.

[JordanEG6]

I've listened to this guy on podcasts and read some of his work. Great reads. It's astounding how society as a whole has skewed views on drugs in general (legal or illegal) and how it's shaped the structure of law. People need to read his books:



http://www.drcarlhart.com/

[01RedDX]

.

[Cos]

.

[Robin Goodfellow]

Originally posted by 01RedDX



I guess the people of Portugal are a bunch of pot-heads whose overdose death rate is 6x lower than the EU average.


» Click image for larger version

An interesting graph, but I'm a bit suspicious in that it overlooks other negative incomes/impacts.

Would like to see something a little more complete...