Tesla Driver Killed in Autopilot Mode

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by rage2
Dashcam footage of HK Tesla in Macau fatal crash in January of this year.

http://money.163.com/16/0914/14/C0UBU2I0002580S6.html

English story: https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/d...rash-in-china/

Because this happened before the Florida fatality, Tesla's statistically safer than human driver claim is no longer true (even tho it wasn't really true to begin with).

Straightly camera based autopilot is stupid.

I agree with ZF's take:

http://uk.reuters.com/article/us-tes...-idUKKCN0ZM1JZ

[lilmira]

That's a pretty bad failure looks like. There was nothing blocking it's view and the obstacle didn't just move into it's path, it was there the entire time.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by lilmira
That's a pretty bad failure looks like. There was nothing blocking it's view and the obstacle didn't just move into it's path, it was there the entire time.

I think the heavy smog/mist is screwing with the image recognition. They is why you need lidar. Human eyes is already not reliable, cameras is just another pair of human eyes attached to a dumber brain (for now).

[rage2]

Originally posted by Xtrema
I think the heavy smog/mist is screwing with the image recognition. They is why you need lidar. Human eyes is already not reliable, cameras is just another pair of human eyes attached to a dumber brain (for now).

From page 2:

Originally posted by rage2


When it works, Tesla autopilot is pretty awesome. The problem is, sometimes it doesn't work in the dumbest circumstances for whatever reason.

I don't think the system really recognizes stopped vehicles at all. Version 8 is supposed to fix that by incorporating data from it's radar sensors. Radar has terrible resolution but coupled with Camera it should be alright. There is no lidar solution compact or cheap enough yet for a car.

[lilmira]

On the bright side we don't have to worry about skynet.

I'll be back! As soon as I figure out how to get around this thing.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by rage2

From page 2:

I don't think the system really recognizes stopped vehicles at all. Version 8 is supposed to fix that by incorporating data from it's radar sensors. Radar has terrible resolution but coupled with Camera it should be alright. There is no lidar solution compact or cheap enough yet for a car.

Looks like it did in that video but too late.

And while overcast, that's a pretty clear day.

I think speed + smog means auto pilot didn't even see that sweeping truck in the Chinese video.

And sounds like Tesla can't recover the car to see what exactly happened. Assuming Chinese Teslas can't call home over the Great Firewall.

[rage2]

Originally posted by Xtrema
Looks like it did in that video but too late.

And while overcast, that's a pretty clear day.

I think speed + smog means auto pilot didn't even see that sweeping truck in the Chinese video.

And sounds like Tesla can't recover the car to see what exactly happened. Assuming Chinese Teslas can't call home over the Great Firewall.

I think it has to do with the speed. There's other videos of Autopilot crashing into parked cars like that. The slower speed ones seems to brake way too late and crash. At highway speeds like the China video, or the Florida accident, it just plows into stationary vehicles without touching the brakes.

The manual actually has a warning for this exact scenario:

“Warning: Traffic-Aware Cruise Control can not detect all objects and may not brake/decelerate for stationary vehicles, especially in situations when you are driving over 50 mph (80 km/h) and a vehicle you are following moves out of your driving path and a stationary vehicle or object, bicycle, or pedestrian is in front of you instead. Always pay attention to the road ahead and stay prepared to take immediate corrective action. Depending on Traffic-Aware Cruise Control to avoid a collision can result in serious injury or death. In addition, Traffic-Aware Cruise Control may react to vehicles or objects that either do not exist or are not in the lane of travel, causing Model S to slow down unnecessarily or inappropriately.”

It's interesting to note that my Lexus distance based cruise control exhibits similar behavior for stopped vehicles. Benyl's E63s, same deal. We had it accelerating at a ridiculous 600hp rate towards stopped traffic. Both are radar based as opposed to Tesla's camera based. Must be some sort of limitation in identifying stopped cars properly in software regardless of sensor types.

[googe]

rage2 and Sugarphreak have a strange level of hate for Tesla Your schadenfreude is coming through loud and clear.

What's up with that? Don't you want this tech to be successful? Or is it some contempt for Elon personally?

[rage2]

Originally posted by googe
rage2 and Sugarphreak have a strange level of hate for Tesla Your schadenfreude is coming through loud and clear.

What's up with that? Don't you want this tech to be successful? Or is it some contempt for Elon personally?

Uhh, I criticized Mercedes for following the exact same path as Tesla, and I'm the biggest MB fanboy around. I'm just telling it like it is. I've always praised self driving technology, but I disagree with what Tesla and Mercedes are doing in regards to self driving, presenting the technology as more mature than it actually is.

As for the rest of the Model S, I've stated many times that their drivetrain is top notch. For day to day driving and street performance, it can't be beat. We've been toying around with the idea of buying a used Model S for some time now. I still think new prices are out to lunch for what you get.

Posting about Tesla failures and trying to understand the failures doesn't make me a Tesla hater. Might be hard for Tesla fanboys to comprehend.

[VWEvo]

Originally posted by googe
rage2 and Sugarphreak have a strange level of hate for Tesla Your schadenfreude is coming through loud and clear.

What's up with that? Don't you want this tech to be successful? Or is it some contempt for Elon personally?

I'm pretty critical of Tesla myself, however I do like that they have pushed the envelope of technology. Three of my closest friends are Tesla fanboys and I get so tired of hearing all about them. With that being said, I was bored, test drove the Model X after thoroughly making fun of it, and low and behold, I ended up ordering one. Scheduled to arrive Oct 15. I'll definitely post my honest review of it. I'm a BMW fanboy, so I doubt the Tesla kookaid will get to me

[rage2]

Originally posted by VWEvo
I'm pretty critical of Tesla myself, however I do like that they have pushed the envelope of technology. Three of my closest friends are Tesla fanboys and I get so tired of hearing all about them. With that being said, I was bored, test drove the Model X after thoroughly making fun of it, and low and behold, I ended up ordering one. Scheduled to arrive Oct 15. I'll definitely post my honest review of it. I'm a BMW fanboy, so I doubt the Tesla kookaid will get to me

Congrats! Let me know when it arrives, I'd love to do a full on review of 'er with ya!

[nismodrifter]

Originally posted by VWEvo


I'm pretty critical of Tesla myself, however I do like that they have pushed the envelope of technology. Three of my closest friends are Tesla fanboys and I get so tired of hearing all about them. With that being said, I was bored, test drove the Model X after thoroughly making fun of it, and low and behold, I ended up ordering one. Scheduled to arrive Oct 15. I'll definitely post my honest review of it. I'm a BMW fanboy, so I doubt the Tesla kookaid will get to me

Tesla would be last on the things I could imagine you driving haha, look forward to hearing about your ownership experience.

[RedDawn]

Originally posted by rage2
Dashcam footage of HK Tesla in Macau fatal crash in January of this year.

http://money.163.com/16/0914/14/C0UBU2I0002580S6.html

English story: https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/d...rash-in-china/

Because this happened before the Florida fatality, Tesla's statistically safer than human driver claim is no longer true (even tho it wasn't really true to begin with).

....except it can't be confirmed Autopilot was even enabled and the family isn't co-operating in the investigation. As long as "Tesla" is in the subject line, no one bothers to read beyond the headline and just jumps to conclusions

"Because of the damage caused by the collision, the car was physically incapable of transmitting log data to our servers and we therefore have no way of knowing whether or not Autopilot was engaged at the time of the crash. We have tried repeatedly to work with our customer to investigate the cause of the crash, but he has not provided us with any additional information that would allow us to do so. The car is still there, and the data can still be extracted. A consumer can't read the data, but Tesla could read the data"

"Tesla, in its statement, said it had "tried repeatedly to work with" Gao's family to determine the cause of the crash, but the family "has not provided us with any additional information that would allow us to do so.

The case has also been filed against the Beijing-based dealer who sold the car.

Gao wants Tesla to pay him 10,000 yuan ($1,499) and his legal costs, and for the company and its Beijing authorized dealer to jointly admit responsibility, according to the lawsuit documents"

[rage2]

Sorry, I should have put in more English context. Although Tesla didn't get the data, the Chinese investigation (not Tesla) states that the car was using autopilot. How they were able to determine that without Tesla's help, I'm not sure. Maybe the full footage had more information that we didn't get to see? Who knows.

[thetransporter]

is anyone talking about the actual israelli company that made the auto drive solution tesla used?

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by thetransporter
is anyone talking about the actual israelli company that made the auto drive solution tesla used?

Because they are more like Bosch in dieselgate. They only provided part of the system but not the integration software.

Client (Tesla) used supplier's tech in ways not designed.

That's why Mobileye discontinued the relationship.

https://electrek.co/2016/07/01/tesla...crash-comment/

http://arstechnica.com/cars/2016/09/...rms-of-safety/

You will find Mobileye products in Hyundai/Volvo/GM since 2011.

[asd913]

Tesla responded to Mobile Eyes claims with a bunch of their own. I've never seem two companies visibily target each other in the press.

https://electrek.co/2016/09/15/tesla...sla-autopilot/

[rage2]

Originally posted by asd913
Tesla responded to Mobile Eyes claims with a bunch of their own. I've never seem two companies visibily target each other in the press.

Haven't you been watching the Visa vs Walmart fight? Visa took out full page open letter to it's cardholder ads bitching about Walmart lol.

As for Tesla v Mobileye, who knows what's going on. 2 sides to every story.