Photography "Side Business" Starting Help

[NoPulp]

Over the last couple years I've been doing a lot of (mainly) automotive photography. I've been doing events and photo sessions with friends to gain as much experience as possible. I've been providing everything for free so far and turning down money for the sake of experience and enjoyment.

I know I have a TON to learn still, but I'm starting to feel confident in my abilities with automotive photography. Lately, I've been starting to get requests on pricing. In the past I just didn't feel good about taking money for my quality of work, but now I think I'd be willing to pay someone else a small amount for work similar to mine? I don't want to make a career out of photography, but it would be nice to make a bit of cash to invest in new gear and cover travel costs.

I've been asked about cost of buying photos from events (I'm assuming to make prints). To me it just seems like too much headache to police that and I'd rather people use good quality versions on social media, rather than steal poor quality versions? It's also good advertisement? So I've been doing that for free, and I think I'll continue with that.

For photo sessions, I'm not sure what to charge. I was thinking like 1-2 hours for taking photos. Then a bit of editing time, I typically take a "minimal" approach with editing. I was thinking of just charging for the session and providing the full res digital copies so the client can make prints or use on social media. If usage is for advertisement, then would I charge differently?





So my questions is what would be a reasonable amount to charge and what are some tips to the "business" side of photography. I've tried to research prices and running a "business", but still unsure.
Or should i just continue doing what I'm currently doing.


For reference, this is my latest photo session with friends. Some photos are meh, some I really love.
https://flic.kr/s/aHskBMZZc8

This is my latest event photography, first time seriously trying to take action photos with the 6d.
https://flic.kr/s/aHskJLfjoA

[blitz]

It's a pretty loaded question. Some peoples answers will hurt your feelings and some will over inflate your ego

IMO, most people start charging for their photography too early in their learning process. You need to be at the stage where you know you'll be able to deliver some fantastic photos every time you go out. It's ok to have "meh" photos, as long as you don't have to pass them onto the client because you didn't get enough good ones.

In the above examples there are some great shots, but there's also a lot of similarity as far as background, framing and composition goes.

I spent some time going through your photostream and here's my un-requested advice:

- Push yourself a little more creatively. Go out with your own car or a friends and try to come back with 10 great photos that are all completely different. Work with your environment to aid with framing, try out some different compositions.
- You don't need 60 shots from a shoot. You need 10 really good ones. Reduce the number that you show people so you can focus on the ones you're proud of.
- You've gone the opposite direction of most car photographers as far as post processing goes (which is a good thing), but I personally think you could do a little more just with contrast, clarity and exposure that would make your images pop a little more.
- Get out more in the golden hour, an hour spent in the evening will be way more valuable to you than a whole afternoon of harsh sun.

My favorite shots of yours is the Stagea where you shot maily with a 135L. Interesting light, varied compositions and effective use of the environment.

IMG_5175 by Richard Brown, on Flickr

IMG_5200 by Richard Brown, on Flickr

[shakalaka]

While I don't know much about photography, the post above seems like good advise. I'll volunteer my car if you want more practice with a 'funky' less common coloured vehicle.

As a layman, those shots look pretty good to me.

[NoPulp]

Excellent reply Blitz, I understood it was a loaded questions just no idea where to start a transition into a side businesses. I was personally think of pricing to just cover my time. Like $80. Perhaps I'll ask the people who have been contacting me to cover the fuel in my truck to drive to their location. Gas and hotel's have been adding up, but it's usually for my own convenience of attending another event as well.

1. I agree about pushing myself more. I think my biggest issue is I'm bored of Lethbridge, I keep reusing locations. I can't seem to find interesting spots where I don't feel rushed. The Stagea was actually my third time in those locations with similar shots. When I go to Calgary its a bit overwhelming to find locations. I do need to focus on using the environment to my benefit though.

2. Agreed about the volume. I've been trying hard to cut my photos, but I still need to drastically reduce more.

3. I've slowly been learning more in depth features of lightroom, but yeah I like to keep my photos some what "real".

4. Agreed about golden hour. I always try to aim for golden hour or good cloud coverage, but unfortunately its hard to work around schedules or coordinate friends to be ready on time...

[ercchry]

Not much to say on the photography side of things... Besides from watching friends from the outside, it looks like a tough gig

But as far as a side business goes... That I do have experience with.

It's all going to come down to what you want out of it. There is a few categories if you will.

1. You have a need/want to subsidize your income
2. You are looking to build something to do full time
3. It's a passion and you just want to be able to continue to do it

Now depending on which category you fall into, or combination of categories, it will dictate your pricing structure.

This is just my personal opinion:

For #1 it should be an hourly rate equal to what you would get for OT at your full time job, problem is customers will want a quote, so it will be an estimate. You'll get better at it though the longer you do it. On top of that all expenses should also be covered, perhaps with a mild markup. If you are unable to get work at these prices... Well, it's not worth your time so don't get too upset

For #2 well, that's a whole different thing. You will have to figure out market rates for your services, be willing to put in unpaid hours, lose money for a while, etc, etc

For #3 it should be the most organic situation. Basically quote based on how much you want the work, if it's an experience you really want to partake in, quote cheap... If it's an inconvenience, quote more. It should all be about enjoyment

[NoPulp]

Good point!
I would like #3 mainly, but I would ideally grow a bit into #1. My end goal would be to have a bit of money on top of "operation/equipment cost", but not to the point where it's another job. I always want to ensure the overall enjoyment. I think I very much want to avoid #2, especially since I don't think I'd ever be able to get to the point where I earn more than I could with my current education.

My problem is, how to I initially start #3. There has been demand starting. Some of the demand I'm interested in doing for free for practice and enjoyment, others I'm not so willing.

Originally posted by shakalaka
While I don't know much about photography, the post above seems like good advise. I'll volunteer my car if you want more practice with a 'funky' less common coloured vehicle.

As a layman, those shots look pretty good to me.

Let me know what you have!

[ercchry]

For #3 I'd say you are on the right track... Just start taking people up on those offers of compensation

[blitz]

Originally posted by NoPulp
I was personally think of pricing to just cover my time. Like $80.

Something like that seems totally reasonable. The important part is just to be upfront with people over what you're getting out of it and what they should expect out of it.

[shakalaka]

I was partly joking actually but wouldn't mind it if you happen to be in Calgary and have the time. The vehicle is a Monte Carlo Blue X5M but it's mostly stock at the moment. Will get some mods in due time once I figure out if I am going to be keeping it long enough to spend money on it or not.

[ExtraSlow]

Only if it is fully loaded.

[The_Rural_Juror]

Originally posted by ExtraSlow
Only if it is fully loaded.

No exceptions

[shakalaka]

Fully loaded, except a few things.

[gogreen]

Agreed with blitz regarding managing expectations. That's definitely key.

Originally posted by ercchry

For #3 it should be the most organic situation. Basically quote based on how much you want the work, if it's an experience you really want to partake in, quote cheap... If it's an inconvenience, quote more. It should all be about enjoyment

Solid post. Since #3 seems to be the way you're leaning, maybe you could also explore licencing your full-res images since you've had requests for that already. For instance, attend a show or event and just have fun taking photos, then if you happen to sell a few images you make a bit of cash. If you did enough volume it may justify setting up e-commerce on your site. I don't have much experience with that end of the business myself, but I'm thinking something along the lines of a fine art photog selling the odd print.

Pricing can be tricky to figure out and I'm sure you'll get some pushback from people who won't want to pay, but it could be something worth looking in to.

[NoPulp]

I've seen people attempt to sell photos from events. The problem is theft, people will just take the low res photos and post them on social media. Seems like a lot of headache. I'd rather people use quality photos and don't make my work look bad. Could sell the full res quality photos for print purposes though, but there's not the same demand for that.

I could explore selling actual prints, but I feel I wouldn't be able to sell them for low enough cost since I don't own a high quality printer. Not sure what investment is needed for a decent printer either.

[Mitsu3000gt]

^^ Printing services are extremely cheap, I don't think many people print their own these days since it's not nearly as economic and often not as good. Using an outside printer also opens up tons of options for sizes, print mediums, framing, mounting, etc. Turnaround is longer but if someone is ordering it as a piece of art, timing usually isn't important.

[ercchry]

The only thing I can think of for shows would be like an amusement ride style booth... Would need a helper though. Would be interesting to see if it would work.

Basically keep uploading your photos back to the booth (could probably get away with a wifi card of sorts)

Then at the booth have a screen that is scrolling through the pics and people can walk up to the booth, check out the pics of their cars, then buy them... Have a couple prices... One for digital copies and another for digital plus print that you later ship to them. This way you are keeping your work off the net so people have no way of actually stealing it

[Mitsu3000gt]

^^ A lot of people do this. Having view-able photos on something larger than the back of the camera is key if you want quick sales at events. The only thing is they will be unedited when potential customers are viewing them. It's common to have the photos on a tablet or something that people can scroll through and get excited about.

[NoPulp]

Who does decent quality prints?

I don't think I'd like to sell like that at events :p already don't have enough time between visiting and taking photos. Even worse if I have my own vehicle at the event to take care of lol

[ercchry]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
^^ A lot of people do this. Having view-able photos on something larger than the back of the camera is key if you want quick sales at events. The only thing is they will be unedited when potential customers are viewing them. It's common to have the photos on a tablet or something that people can scroll through and get excited about.

I could see it being tricky with car shows though just cause of the lack of controls on media... Would be easy for track days though. People will just wait out for that one guy to load up 100 pics to Flickr a week later and steal them for free

Would be cool to see a collective formed for track events though. Still give out media passes, but everyone on track sends their work back to a central booth, where someone that knows how to edit is sitting there sorting through everything, making quick changes then making sales as people stop by

[D'z Nutz]

Seriously man, speaking from experience, just drop the idea about selling high res photos and prints. You'd be wasting your time and effort because people are cheap. Been there, done that, never doing it again. I've done events where I'd spent 20+ hours over the course of a weekend evenings just taking photos, plus the time that comes with rush editing and uploading to shopping carts, not to mention prep and travel, only to be lucky enough to come out with a couple hundred bucks.

If you're at an event already and someone thinks you took a great photo of their car and wants to buy a high res photo or print, great, but don't expect to make any amount of money that's worth the pain in the ass that comes with managing everything. The only way you'll make any money that's (barely) worth the effort is if you have a deal to be exclusive media personnel and people have no choice but to come to you for photos. Most people will just scour Facebook and right-click-and-save and be done with it because it's free, you and hundreds of other event goers took the same picture, and they don't care about quality. You can bitch and complain about people representing your work with poor quality images but if it's out there, they're going to take it, resize it, crop it, or enlarge a low res photo and there's nothing you can do to stop it. The only people who really care about quality of work are other photographers.

If you want to make money on the side, come up with an hourly rate you're happy with and just work for hire.