TRUMAN HOMES leaves home owner on their own...

[macman64]

My builder(cedarglen) installed wood blocking around the sink so much like clips just cheaper. So yes builders sometimes do more than just silicon.

[FraserB]

Originally posted by C_Dave45
[B]
Probably half have undermount sinks. I've worked with every granite/slab installer in Calgary. I've never seen them install undermounts any other way than just regular silicone.

Bit of a ridiculous statement don't you think?

[carson blocks]

Originally posted by C_Dave45
*edit*...I do see that now. Mine didn't come with clips. My question would be, if using clips...what exactly would you screw them into, with a countertop being made out of stone. There's no wood to screw the clips into.

If I'm reading correctly, the manufacturer recommends building a brace if the clips cannot be used. I did some googling and found that some drill/epoxy threaded inserts in to the underside of the surface, some build a wooden support structure from the cabinet, and there are even sink brackets and harnesses made specifically for this purpose.

Sink harness: http://www.braxton-bragg.com/index.c...vel/bc/0,9096/

Various brackets: http://www.braxton-bragg.com/index.c.../0,8459,10475/

Video from Moen showing recommended installation using the clips on granite. https://youtu.be/xAlCSbsZYnI?t=122
Another video showing some clips for granite: https://youtu.be/qqXuhaGb2js?t=48
Video showing the harness setup: https://youtu.be/1DFw0RKSCkQ?t=158


Again, I'm a rank amateur and tend to overbuild things due to my lack of experience, but with the options available why not use one just to be safe? OP, what brand is your countertop, and what do they recommend for attaching undermount sinks?

Dave, I believe you 100% that most use just silicone and they work fine as your experience in this area is huge, but thinking just from a liability perspective, what info would help OP in his battle to prove to Truman that the installation wasn't adequate.

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by C_Dave45
My question would be, if using clips...what exactly would you screw them into, with a countertop being made out of stone. There's no wood to screw the clips into.

Uh duh. You silicone the clips to the stone

[gwill]

im surprised the news did an article on this. Everything has a warranty.. houses, cars, electronics... there arent many that will add an extra 6 months or a year when an issue arises.

Isnt it our responsibility to understand what we are buying and what limitations there are to the warranty?

[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by FraserB


Bit of a ridiculous statement don't you think?

What do you mean? The "every" part...or the "half" part?
Regardless...the point being, installing undermounts with silicone is not "wrong", nor against "code", nor against manufacturers specs.

You could mount them with steel titanium I-beams reinforced with Kryptonite if you want.

Using silicone is the way it's done and plenty strong enough.
End of story.

[spikerS]

Originally posted by C_Dave45

Using silicone is the way it's done and plenty strong enough.
End of story.

Assuming it is installed with the proper silicone, and installed properly and the installer didn't cut corners. Which never happens right?

Now that I know about this, if I ever end up with an undermount sink, I will be installing bracing under neath just for peace of mind.

[FixedGear]

Just checked mine out cause this thread had me worried, I've got clips on that appear to be screwed into the bottom of the counter.

[Minimalist]

I just checked and I have clips and screwed in as well. Now my wife wants to know why I am taking a selfie while standing in the kitchen sink.

I bet the sink manufacturer gives loose instructions in order to not be on the bad end of a lawsuit. Also, wondering why the news did a piece on the home builder as they do advertise. Cough... did.

It is not at all uncommon to bathe a toddler in a kitchen sink. I'd hate to see where this story would be going if a kid or two were in the sink when it collapsed.

[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by Minimalist
I just checked and I have clips and screwed in as well.

That's a laminate countertop and drop-in sink though, no?

Originally posted by FixedGear
Just checked mine out cause this thread had me worried, I've got clips on that appear to be screwed into the bottom of the counter.

Completely different scenario. How do you attach clips to a stone countertop? There's nothing to screw the clips to.

Originally posted by spikerS

Assuming it is installed with the proper silicone, and installed properly and the installer didn't cut corners. Which never happens right?

How is that any different to anything in a build? In whatever trade or installation. Maybe they cut corners and didn't use glue on an abs fitting, maybe they didn't use the proper liner in your shower floor, maybe they didn't insulate a wall.

Still doesn't negate the fact that using silicone to attach an undermount sink to a stone top is perfectly fine.

[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by macman64
My builder(cedarglen) installed wood blocking around the sink so much like clips just cheaper. So yes builders sometimes do more than just silicon.

You're among the minority then. I'd love to see a picture of that, btw.

I worked on Cedarglen Homes for about 13 years. Pretty much every install I was at were done with silicone.

[macman64]

Originally posted by C_Dave45

You're among the minority then. I'd love to see a picture of that, btw.

I worked on Cedarglen Homes for about 13 years. Pretty much every install I was at were done with silicone.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...%2000%20PM.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...%2016%20PM.jpg

Let me know if you want different angles etc. I am sure this is in addition to silicon, not instead of.

[infected]

Damn this thread has got me all worried too. The condo looks to be similar to FixedGear, 4 bolts with washers at each corner. There is no sign of epoxy and it looks like they used a tap to create threads to the underside of the granite... as crazy as that sounds. I'm not going to go loosen it to check but anyways...

The house is similar to macman64, wooden blocking (pretty much shims) around the edges with epoxy, plus one piece of strapping that spans across the width of both sinks. I've ordered a set of cinclips for the house just in case and will probably remove the strapping (looks bad). You can check it out when you start on the tiling, Dave.

Didn't know you could create threads in granite though???

[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by macman64


https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...%2000%20PM.jpg

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...%2016%20PM.jpg

Let me know if you want different angles etc. I am sure this is in addition to silicon, not instead of.

Ahh ok. Lol. Btw...those are temporary. Only used to hold the sink in place until the silicone cures. I'm surprised the pre-oc didn't catch that and remove them. Looks like ass for a new home. Some installers do that, others use a 2x4 under the sink with rope or wires up through the drain onto another 2x4 running across the countertops. Twist the wire or rope to snug the sink into place.
The most common now though is really strong "scotch tape" (like sock tape in hockey) and they just tape it onto the counter over night.

[FixedGear]

Originally posted by C_Dave45

Completely different scenario. How do you attach clips to a stone countertop? There's nothing to screw the clips to.

From what I can tell, they drilled holes into the stone from the underside, and the bolts are screwed into that. I didn't install it, but that what it looks like when I stick my head under there.

[FixedGear]

Originally posted by infected
Damn this thread has got me all worried too. The condo looks to be similar to FixedGear, 4 bolts with washers at each corner. There is no sign of epoxy and it looks like they used a tap to create threads to the underside of the granite... as crazy as that sounds. I'm not going to go loosen it to check but anyways...

Yeah, that sounds like what I have too - looks like they drilled holes, then tapped them for the bolts.

[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by FixedGear


From what I can tell, they drilled holes into the stone from the underside, and the bolts are screwed into that. I didn't install it, but that what it looks like when I stick my head under there.

Oh that method. They use epoxy to hold the T-nuts in place. Thats common in the States. Very rarely done up here. Takes too long and has to be done the day before install.


» Click image for larger version

[speedog]

Originally posted by Minimalist


It is not at all uncommon to bathe a toddler in a kitchen sink. I'd hate to see where this story would be going if a kid or two were in the sink when it collapsed.

Wouldn't happen in your pictured example as that is a surface mounted sink.

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by speedog


Wouldn't happen in your pictured example as that is a surface mounted sink.

Meh. It's an awesome picture of innocence though!

Something we've forgotten.

[FixedGear]

Originally posted by C_Dave45

Oh that method. They use epoxy to hold the T-nuts in place. Thats common in the States. Very rarely done up here. Takes too long and has to be done the day before install.


» Click image for larger version

I can check tomorrow, but these are thick counters and it looked like they were sunk right onto the granite.