Mikko's AMG Handling Debate

[Mikko]

AMG seems to make ponycars mostly. Dead steering feel, under steer. Yuck. BMW Motorsports make extremely balanced and well handling cars that love twisty roads (BMW Z3 and Z4 roadster excluded).

[rage2]

Originally posted by Mikko
AMG seems to make ponycars mostly. Dead steering feel, under steer. Yuck. BMW Motorsports make extremely balanced and well handling cars that love twisty roads (BMW Z3 and Z4 roadster excluded).

I just hate it when people make judgement before even DRIVING the cars. I base all my comments on EXPERIENCE with these cars. Oh well, guess you don't know what you're missing.

[max_boost]

Originally posted by rage2


I just hate it when people make judgement before even DRIVING the cars. I base all my comments on EXPERIENCE with these cars. Oh well, guess you don't know what you're missing.

He reads too much.....I don't think he even has his license yet.....

[[GaGe]]

Originally posted by Mikko
AMG seems to make ponycars mostly. Dead steering feel, under steer. Yuck. BMW Motorsports make extremely balanced and well handling cars that love twisty roads (BMW Z3 and Z4 roadster excluded).

Where'd you get THAT from??

[Mikko]

I got my impressions from car magazines and other motor journalists, like "Top Gear", autozine.

Rage2 - There is no way I'm going to get to drive a car like a SLK 32 AMG, or a BMW Z3. Fortunately we can still get knowledge from professionals who do drive these cars and write about their experiences, and as such, get some kind of idea how they really handle.

What I'm missing is irellevant as I could never get such a car anyway. Though fortunately I'm not really a fan of roadsters nor Mercedes.

[boi-alien]

dude this is the thing, you shouldn't form your opinions based on what someone else told you. you should always form your opinions from your own experience.

by your logic, if reading about stuff is the be all and end all way of determining whether or not something is good, you're basically saying that if there were several books/magazines with experts in them that said you should jump out of a plane with no paracute. that's something that everyone should do?

look, the reason why nobody find's what you say credible is because you've never had actual experience. you're going by what you've read, and sure what the experts say may be true, but they also might be biased. you ever think of that? everyone's opinions are biased, cause that's what an opinion is. you should experience it for yourself first before u knock on it.

[Mikko]

If I could really experience everything first hand, that would be marvelous. However that is not possible, so I'm left to reading documented experiences of others. If I was to buy such a car, I would definitely try them first hand.

[GTS Jeff]

well mikko, its fine to read and learn from others...but its quite impossible to take that and present it as your opinion without thoroughly discrediting yourself.

see, ive rode both, but driven neither, so im keeping my mouth shut to keep from looking stupid..

[Mikko]

The problem is there'll be one review where say the SLK 32 has great handling and another that won't.

This assuming that I have actually read/seen two reviews that say the opposite. But I haven't. This is important to me when forming an opinion/impression. In every AMG feature I have observed during the years, the conclusions have been pretty much the same regarding handling.

Your opinion would end up being what you want to believe.

If half the respectable reviewers say it sucks, and the other half says it rocks, I would most likely be indetermined. Another thing one needs to do is try to evaluate who are more believable. Reading a review by someone who reviews her/his own car (typical over at www.epinions.com), then comparing that review to someone like Tiff Needell who is an ex race driver.

Reading different magazines and using different testers/articles to compare cars is just bench racing.

Call it what you will. This forum is stuffed with comments upon comments about cars the people haven't actually driven on a track themselves. Be sure to point it out next time you see someone do it.

[three.eighteen.]

Originally posted by Mikko

Call it what you will. This forum is stuffed with comments upon comments about cars the people haven't actually driven on a track themselves. Be sure to point it out next time you see someone do it.

umm...i havent driven on a track, but at least i've driven!!

[Mikko]

i've driven!!

Driven all the cars you ever comment on? That's great.

[Mikko]

Edit: Thank you, moderators, I am glad to see Beyond display some quality by keeping namecalling posts and such away. You could have deleted this post too while at it, it contains nothing that is relevant to the topic.

[kenny]

What needs to be moderated? Don't take offense so easily, everyone is entitled to their opinions, but with that, there will always be disagreements.

[Mikko]

Back on topic:

Is it not true that the SLK 32 AMG has recirculating-ball steering instead of the superior rack & pinion? SUV's and trucks are the most common types of vehicles to use recirculating-ball I believe. This supports the claim of poor steering feel.

[three.eighteen.]

Originally posted by Mikko


Driven all the cars you ever comment on? That's great.

i've driven at least 1 of the cars i comment on...mine...how many cars have you driven that u comment on? by the sounds of things u sound like you could be colin mcrae or rhys millen

[rage2]

Originally posted by Mikko
Is it not true that the SLK 32 AMG has recirculating-ball steering instead of the superior rack & pinion? SUV's and trucks are the most common types of vehicles to use recirculating-ball I believe. This supports the claim of poor steering feel.

That is one of the dumbest conclusion I've seen you make... another reason not to even bother reading your posts.

The BMW M5 uses RB steering as well, I don't see anyone bitching about it's steering feel. My wife just drove the SLK 32 for the first time the other night, and complained that there's too much road feel. I find it just right.

Just because the SLK's use RB steering (due to packaging) doesn't mean it's automatically going to have poor steering feel. There's a lot more to steering feel than RB design vs R&P designs.

[Mikko]

M3, 3 Series, Mercedes C-class - all of them use Rack & Pinion. In general, rack-and-pinion steering systems tend to offer more precision as they have fewer linkages than recirculating-ball systems. Road feel also is improved because operating friction is reduced.

[rage2]

Thanks for the heads up, but I think I knew that already. Re-read my post, you obviously don't get it.

[Mikko]

It isn't the means and end to all steering, but as I first stated, it does support the claims of uninspiring steering. Think of it as circumstantial evidence. Just like how using macpherson struts up front does suggest that the car is more likely to suffer from torque steer - even if it might not have a lot or any at all.

[rage2]

Let me put myself in a "bench racer's" frame of mind for a second... Let's compare the 2003 540i vs 2003 E500 (using these 2 as I've driven both cars). The E500 has R&P steering, and the 540 has RB steering. The 540 must steer like crap, numb, no feeling because it has RB steering. It has to! So the E500 rocks!

That's not even close to the truth. The 540 has much better road feel than the E500, even though it's using RB steering. Why? Because BMW engineers tuned the 540 to be sportier than the MB engineers wanted the E500 to be. The feel is totally dependant on what the engineer's goals are. Road feel in the steering system is dependant on chassis design.