Vehicle Registration ticket; Trial

[Maddog55]

So I go to court today to fight a $350 fine I received from the MD of Rockeyview cops back in march.

I go thru a "gauntlet" out in a new high-end subdivision with two marked cruisers sitting there.

I'm friendly, "hi officer, whats the problem"

"I'll tell you in a second, can you open your van please"

"Sure, no problem, are you guys checking for theft from the site..awesome, I'm glad to see the cops doing that"

"No..I'll tell you in a bit..."

I open my van doors to show my tools etc, nothing else, and all of a sudden he whips out a camera and FLASH, takes a picture.

"whoa whoa hold on....whats going on here?"

He's now looking at my vehicle reg and says: "here's the problem; you're not registered as a commercial vehicle.."

"Umm...didn't think I had to be, since I don't haul an material and I'm working for an employer, I only carry my personal tools, (important point here) at least thats what 4 different registry agents as well as the one that gave me my class 3 passenger vehicle plates said

"Nope..anyone carrying tools needs a commercial plate"

"Oh wow..i did not know that officer, I"ll go and change that right away. How much more are commercial plates? " (He didn't know...it is $10 more I find out later)

"Good..just wait right here while I write you up a $350 fine"

"WHAT!!???!!!" Thats when I lost it....

So, if you are carrying tools to your place of employment, you need commercial plates. Does a judge need them when he carries his briefcase and files? Does an office worker need them when he brings his laptop to work with him? Does EVERY SINGLE construction worker, driving his car with a tool pouch in it need one???


This cop said Yes. So..I am off to court this morning to fight this. Even the head of Alberta Vehicle Registration agreed with me that it is a grey area.

The definition of class 3 passenger (not commercial) plates:

A vehicle shall be registered in the class 3-pass category when the vehicle is utilized solely for personal transportation including the transportation of the registered owner's own goods ...

I'll let you all know how it goes.

[Crymson]

Keep us updated, because THAT is fucking ridiculous.

Also, you do not have to open up anything for police, they play on your good nature to be courteous. They may stick you with some bullshit ticket for not allowing them to trample on your rights, but you can't do much when you're dealing with assholes and badges.

[JRSC00LUDE]

Hopefully that cop has to be there so the judge can mop the floor with his ass for wasting everyones time and money.

[topmade]

I think that it's because your tools are for work even if it's your personal tools, it's for work use. So that would require commercial plates. It really depends on the situation like do you have built in shelving and stuff in your van? Are any tools mounted directly to the van?

But to an extent, I think it's a BS ticket because what the cop is saying is that you can't even carry a emergency toolbox in the car without having comercial plates? This is assuming you are not leaving out any "details" in your post. I would say just make sure to do more research instead on relying on the obvious before diving in and keep us posted.

[Maddog55]

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE
Hopefully that cop has to be there so the judge can mop the floor with his ass for wasting everyones time and money.

This is what bugs me the most. For a simple $10 clerical error I will end up wasting two full days of work ($600), 1/2 day of the courts time for my first appearance, paper work etc etc, plus another 1/2 day for the trial.

Some of you might've caught Tony Tighe's clip from Global of this back in March. He came out and filmed/interviewed me and also all the other tradesmen caught in the same gauntlet.

Putting on my suit n tie now for court.....

[BigMass]

oh god, never ever consent to a search even if you have nothing to hide. It's your right.

[Maddog55]

Originally posted by topmade
I think that it's because your tools are for work even if it's your personal tools, it's for work use. So that would require commercial plates. It really depends on the situation like do you have built in shelving and stuff in your van? Are any tools mounted directly to the van?

But to an extent, I think it's a BS ticket because what the cop is saying is that you can't even carry a emergency toolbox in the car without having comercial plates? This is assuming you are not leaving out any "details" in your post. I would say just make sure to do more research instead on relying on the obvious before diving in and keep us posted.

Thats the big grey area..."tools for work" the law doesn't clarify what constitutes "tools". Is a laptop "tools". Is a computer repairmans "screwdrivers and tool box "tools".

You work for a construction company and bring your tool pouch and tape measure in your Civic.....commercial use???

And that's what the head of Alberta Vehicle Dept said to me...
But as a lay-person...I rely on the professionals advice coming from a registry agent...when they tell me I only need class 3...what am I to do...argue with them?

[Toms-SC]

Man that blows. I'd be pretty steamed. Let us know how this goes.

[Tik-Tok]

That is one shitty deal. Goes to show how much the traffic cops here are just cash machines for the city, they obviously don't care about safety, just the money.

[rmk]

Good luck with everything.

[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok
That is one shitty deal. Goes to show how much the cops here are just cash machines for the city, they obviously don't care about safety, just the money.

Although I agree with the sentiment 100%, always be careful to make the distinction between cops assigned to traffic duty or whatever and the ones who are actually out there doing a good job and protecting society as best they can. Even the cops I know make that distinction and those guys are out there working hard and doing good things for the most part.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by JRSC00LUDE


Although I agree with the sentiment 100%, always be careful to make the distinction between cops assigned to traffic duty or whatever and the ones who are actually out there doing a good job and protecting society as best they can. Even the cops I know make that distinction and those guys are out there working hard and doing good things for the most part.

my first post edited

[civicluva]

I keep a set of tools in my trunk at all times because my car friggin breaks like every 2000 km, does that mean I need a commercial license? That fuckin cop is a joke. He is going to use that gay picture for shitty evidence so don't even worry about it, your explanation will get you out of it.

[ScottysZ]

That is absolutely fuckin ridiculous dude, everybody carries something with them that is job-related.

And about the whole traffic cop thing, they are just born pricks, and being a traffic cop is the best way to be a prick, feel like a big man, and make a living. My dad used to be in the RCMP in vancouver and the shit he told me about the traffic cops was fuckin unbelievable... kinda like this 'commercial plate' shit... fuck im mad. I hope that cop gets his ass handed to him.

[Antonito]

From what I've heard I think the limit is if you are carrying around a lot of materials (more than what could plausibly be believed is only for your own home renovations) or a lot of equipment that say Property of Joe Blow Carpentry or whatever. But of course the gray area causes all sorts of problems.

Hope things work out, my feeling is that they will.

[5hift]

Was this in the SW in the Couagar Ridge/Springbank area? I remember this happening for a weekend a while back. Since there is a lot of construction around this area, I guess CPS realized the untapped bullshit ticketing potential.

From what I remember, they set up their cars in a way you didnt really see them coming, and you had no way of turning around. Small cars and SUVs were waved through, but any van/truck was pulled over and forced into a inspection.

Great job you dirty cps fucks. With the shortage of workers in the construction industry, they best idea they have is to harass the hard working small business guys that carry our construction industry.

If you didnt do anything wrong, and you are driving a legally registered personal vehicle, do you even have to show them inside your van? I thought they needed a warrant before going through someone's car without them giving them cause.

I'd like to hear Dayglow's explanation of this one.

[Maddog55]

Okay update:

first; no this was out in the new subdivision of Monterra on Cochrane lakes 10 k's north of Cochrane.

Secondly there's no law dictating what constitutes "Tools" or how many. Materials didn't play into this as I was not carrying materials for the job. Only personal tools.

And that was what the head of Alberta Dept of Motor Vehicles said. He agreed that technically, the way its written, if he brings his laptop and briefcase to work with him in his car, he would need commercial plates.

So...on to today:

I show up, on time, documents in hand, dressed to the nines. Case after case until I'm the last one. The crown asks the judge for a recess while she talks to the officer involved about my case.
They disappear. Couple minutes later the cop comes back and asks to talk to me before trial. We go into a back office.

"First of all...are you the guy that caught that hit n run driver with his camera awhile back?"

"lol...yeah that was me"

"Let me shake your hand...that was a damn fine thing you did" ROFL!! "So what are we gonna do about this? How about if I ask crown to drop the fine from $350 to something like $50, no record and a guilty plea.."

I answer "Well, ya know, its not about the money. I'm already out two days wages so I'd rather not make a guilty plea to a lesser charge"

"Okay well lets bring crown counsel in here before trial"

So she comes in and I lay it all out for her, showing her emails from 3 different registries saying I only need class 3 passenger and not commercial yadda yadda yadda..

She looks at the officer and says "Thats privatization for ya...good thing we didn't go to trial on this, its rediculous...all charges are dropped..you can go"

Score one for the little guy!!

And I DO have to give credit to the cop. He actually suggested to HER that I had obviously done a lot of research and I wasn't trying to evade any info regarding my vehicle and that I had since registered commercial plates on my van. He was pretty cool about it and it was he that suggested that they withdraw all charges. They both agreed that it was a good wake-up call to them about the whole situation.

[Schwa]

Well done dude!

[TE4MFaint]

Props for doin the right thing!
Takes guts to do the proper research and stick up for yourself.
Kudos on the win

[Antonito]

That's awesome news. I'm also impressed by your ability to be the bigger man with the cop. Good days work on your part I'd say