Federal Budget 2021

[kertejud2]

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It might be at the expense of less economic activity later. The child grows up with parents working all the time. The child ends up with mental health issues later in life. That has a huge effect on economic output and productivity.

But lets look at it another way.
Universal child care is needed because the conditions are artificially created to be dependent on the state. Childcare costs are high due to the high cost in controlled labour market (i.e a high minimum wage). Hence people run to the government to solve this problem. The government knows this and welcomes them with open arms. The government now has a mandate to implement more taxes and more control. Thats how politics works.

The increased economic output which you are argue only work on a limited set of variables. It does not happen free. It is the expense of something else. Did the economists measure against the importance of a family unit? If so how did they measure such variables?

You're acting like "the family unit" isn't already being affected. The number of families with two working parents has doubled since the Gen Xers started being born where over 2/3s of families have dual earners, with over half not having a parent at home at all times. So the impact of parents working all the time and mental health and the importance of the family unit is basically irrelevant since the factors exist with the current setup anyway. It's not a question of 'the family unit or universal childcare', it's 'expensive childcare vs. cheap childcare'.

Your argument of 'freeing up labour' implies that it is locked. It is not. Its a crafty way to try and squeeze more milk out of a cow while not understanding the consequences later. There is not a shortage of labour, even if there was there are institutions and processes to address this. Education to reskill, incentivise married couples to have more children and immigration. All three can be used in various stages of the timeline to take on this problem.
But this Universal Childcare is appealing to women. It allows them to work under the narrative they are 'free'. Some of the women work in sectors funded by the state, healthcare in particular. These institutions need more tax money, they need people to work. If they don't get government funding, people lose jobs. So the government gets votes. Create the conditions so the people are dependent on the state.

Also your argument of universal childcare only applies to certain demographic. There are families that have generation households. They don't have issue of childcare. Why should they pay more tax?

If these healthcare workers are needed, but aren't working because of the want of cheap childcare, their hours get filled by OT and upward wage pressure making the system more expensive.

But labour is locked because certain jobs don't pay enough to justify paying for childcare (get a job to pay for childcare so they can get a job). Some people don't want to work full time but still want their kids to be involved in daycares for the social aspects, and for their own mental well-being, but there's no way a part time job could justify part-time childcare.

[Misterman]

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If these healthcare workers are needed, but aren't working because of the want of cheap childcare, their hours get filled by OT and upward wage pressure making the system more expensive.

It's actually cheaper to fill with OT than pay the benefits, pension, insurance, etc of another employee.

[kertejud2]

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It's actually cheaper to fill with OT than pay the benefits, pension, insurance, etc of another employee.

So we’ll stop hearing about how Alberta nurses are paid more than the national average, yeah?

And we’ll definitely stop hearing about AHS’ need to manage overtime ‘due to fiscal restraint’? Because while it can be cheaper to fill with OT, that only is true to a point. And when you’re with an organization that needs to cover 24hours and pays 2x for overtime and not 1.5x, in addition to other shift premiums (like $5/hr for nights, $3.25/hr for weekends, on call pay, etc) that point comes a lot sooner than other industries. Plus with an organization as large as AHS and AUPE the costs for things like group benefits are pretty minimal relative to your average employer, and costs for things like insurance are offset by the increased liability that comes with running hospitals understaffed and/or with overworked support staffs.

[Misterman]

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So we’ll stop hearing about how Alberta nurses are paid more than the national average, yeah?

And we’ll definitely stop hearing about AHS’ need to manage overtime ‘due to fiscal restraint’? Because while it can be cheaper to fill with OT, that only is true to a point. And when you’re with an organization that needs to cover 24hours and pays 2x for overtime and not 1.5x, in addition to other shift premiums (like $5/hr for nights, $3.25/hr for weekends, on call pay, etc) that point comes a lot sooner than other industries. Plus with an organization as large as AHS and AUPE the costs for things like group benefits are pretty minimal relative to your average employer, and costs for things like insurance are offset by the increased liability that comes with running hospitals understaffed and/or with overworked support staffs.

You're trying to delve into an entirely different subject that you don't understand about nurses rigging the system to always be paid OT

[dirtsniffer]

Why do our nurses get all overtime paid at 2x? Like what kind of gravy is that?

https://www.taxpayer.com/newsroom/hu...rates-too-high

[dubhead]

You don't get 2x? I feel like most of the jobs I've had over the years was 2x. Certainly anything oil and gas related. Maybe the garbage construction stuff before that but I seem to recall most doing 2x

[AndyL]

Time + half is standard...

Double time is holidays.

I don't want to know what we pay public employees on holidays... no doubt 4x.

[dubhead]

I was always under the impression that it was a mutually beneficial set up. AHS hires less saves on benefits and make their fixed cost budgets look better the nurse just work in the frame work the best to their advantage because who wouldn't.

[Darkane]

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You're trying to delve into an entirely different subject that you don't understand about nurses rigging the system to always be paid OT

Yeah, this is a real thing.

[killramos]

How much do you guys think “benefits” cost?

Because paying people double time all the time is NOT a good trade off against paying benefits.

[dubhead]

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How much do you guys think “benefits” cost?

Because paying people double time all the time is NOT a good trade off against paying benefits.

I didn't say it always worked but some mangers AHS or in private industry seem to think it does. There is a point in there somewhere that it does come out cheaper though no?

[lasimmon]

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Time + half is standard...

Double time is holidays.

I don't want to know what we pay public employees on holidays... no doubt 4x.

I think they max out at 3x. But it doesn't have to be a holiday. Working your blackout day gets you 3x I think. Something along those lines I can't remember what my friend was telling me.

[killramos]

lol whatever a “blackout day” is

[lasimmon]

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lol whatever a “blackout day” is

I realized that it was my sister telling me this but she works in BC so may not be the same here, but yes its stupid.

[JRSC00LUDE]

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lol whatever a “blackout day” is

Well if it's what I think it is it's a hell of a nice time son.

[ExtraSlow]

I find time for a few blackout days.

[brucebanner]

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I find time for a few blackout days.

They may not be the same kind of blackout.

I mean, I know cheap beer can get the best of ya some times though.

[killramos]

Based on the nurses I know, I think it’s the same kind of blackout.

But then they go to work anyway.

[vengie]

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Based on the nurses I know, I think it’s the same kind of blackout.

But then they go to work anyway.

Have you ever been hung over and a nurse pops an IV in your arm? Seeya never hangover.

[killramos]

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Have you ever been hung over and a nurse pops an IV in your arm? Seeya never hangover.

I have some paramedic friends. So yea lol