Does Canada need more immigration.

[CUG]

Yes, but only people who can make a decent tamale.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


This is one of those rare times I will abandon my capitalistic stance when it deviates this far from common sense. If the only way to make our economy viable is to add more people, then there is a problem with it.

Germany is a good example of how a zero growth country can still remain economically viable, and frankly even it has too many people crammed into a small space anyway.

Forgive me if I take step back and state that having somewhere that doesn’t feel like a hamster cage of people crawling on top of each other is worth something.

Sugarphreak for f*&king president (premier)

Population growth is a zero sum game, overall it f**ks you in the end. No different in a sense than fiat currency. Until technology is developed to expand OFF Earth and travel, a new system has to be found to embrace stagnant growth of the population.

[Hallowed_point]

If I wanted Canada to turn into China or India, I'd move there.
I don't want to have zero personal space.

[cancer man]

Originally posted by Idiot Stick


I have a good job out here making slightly more than the average double income family a year but maybe I should see what's available in my field out that way. Maybe be able to provide a better life for my wife and daughter. Are IT professional jobs a dime a dozen out there? I was under the impression it was entirely oil field labour work that was super easy to get into

Don't come out here it's a flipping rat race.

[Maxt]

High density population numbers are okay, if everyone is of like mindedness. Canada is different in that it has become the destination and sometimes the dumping ground for everyone, and as we all know, everyone in the world seldom gets along. We don't have intense friction right now because we still have ways of putting distance between ourselves if we wish. Increase density and the realities of multiculturalism will surface. Look at all the cracks made about the Northeast, and how some don't want to live there, now start forcing people to live with people they have disdain for. A small percentage assimilate or even partially assimilate and they are held up as a shining example, the people who don't assimilate tend to huddle together and strangely enough, warp this society into the one they left for whatever reason.
High density allows for a larger tax base to spread out costs, well that seems to be how it works everywhere else(except in Calgary, another discussion), but the example of Japan was brought up, density works there , because its population is relatively monolithic. Everyone has the same standards, and the education system there teaches the commons of society, something that would be poo-pooed in Canada now. This notion that everyone can be totally different , yet get along is going to proven to be a farce when we actually start running out of room.

[94boosted]

Originally posted by Tej.S


Who's "we"? So in theory, first nations should've had the right to cherry pick the people they wanted? Ofc that's not how things work now, but I'm just putting it out there lol.

No not first nations, "we" as in the current tax paying & contributing population. We should be able to set the criteria (via the appropriate methods i.e. studies, research, surveys...) for immigration.

Originally posted by Tej.S

You've gotta remember that most people who immigrate to Canada usually leave everything behind and would have an extremely hard time starting up with absolutely no support. However.. I guess if that were the case, would it cause them to think twice before immigrating here?

I don't want my tax dollar going to helping people out that have not yet contributed themselves, IMO financial support needs to be earned.

[JRSC00LUDE]

Originally posted by cancer man
Don't come out here it's a flipping rat race.

You're not going to start "designing" mobile homes out of old vans, are you?

[PaleRider]

Originally posted by 94boosted
GTS4tw, Sugarphreak & masoncgy

I'm all for imigration but as others have said I think the criteria for being allowed to enter should be much more stringent, Canada is a pretty awesome place to be and people from all over the world want to come here, so why shouldn't we be allowed to cherry pick the ones we want

I also think that immigrants should not be eligible for social support i.e. wellfare, EI, CPP for x years until they've put in their time working and paying taxes i.e. contributing.

Overall I think we do cherry pick via the point system (skilled professionals), or $$$ (investment/entrepreneurship).

It's the refugee system that needs a closer look. IMHO, refugee system seems to bring in folks with more "baggage".

[hampstor]

The criteria is very strict, we do cherrypick, and it's not a short/quick process (my cousin was accepted into Canada almost 5 years after her original application - she had already been accepted into Australia to practice medicine years before Canada accepted her). However there are other programs (ie: family immigration) with strict criteria that have been abused. For example, some people come from places where records management is very poor/non existant or you can bribe local gov't officials to create you false papers so you can meet the criteria for entry.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by PaleRider


Overall I think we do cherry pick via the point system (skilled professionals), or $$$ (investment/entrepreneurship).

It's the refugee system that needs a closer look. IMHO, refugee system seems to bring in folks with more "baggage".

I thought the investment class is stopped for the time being. No?

It's not hard for Chinese to buy Canadian citizenship a few years back.

EDIT: yup, that class is stopped unless you want to live in Quebec.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigra...ness/index.asp

I believe they raise the investment class from $400K to $800K and it's still too cheap for Chinese to buy 4 passports for a family. And the investment usually goes into shell companies that's set up by immigration consultants. Once approved, the investor get most (if not all) of the money back.

Investment class is BS IMO. The government may as well charge $1M per passport and pocket the money to pay for our deficits.

Refugee class is a whole different deal. Don't know how to humanely deport or refuse entry for refugees.

[94boosted]

Originally posted by Xtrema


I thought the investment class is stopped for the time being. No?

It's not hard for Chinese to buy Canadian citizenship a few years back.

EDIT: yup, that class is stopped unless you want to live in Quebec.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigra...ness/index.asp

I believe they raise the investment class from $400K to $800K and it's still too cheap for Chinese to buy 4 passports for a family. And the investment usually goes into shell companies that's set up by immigration consultants. Once approved, the investor get most (if not all) of the money back.

Investment class is BS IMO. The government may as well charge $1M per passport and pocket the money to pay for our deficits.

Refugee class is a whole different deal. Don't know how to humanely deport or refuse entry for refugees.

What the heck I didn't even know there was such an option, so you "invest" $800K in the Canadian Economy, get your Citizenship and then you get it all back 5 years later? So in essence you've bought your citizenship for whatever the potential money you could have made by investing the 800K over 5 years is?

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigra...tors/index.asp

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Feruk]

Originally posted by 01RedDX
wow

Stagnant/declining population = stagnant/declining economy.

Economics 101

Actually economics 101 says you need EITHER an increase in population, or an increase in technological innovation.

[Feruk]

Originally posted by GTS4tw
Its true though even in Canada, the stupider people seem to tend to have more kids.

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Also, that native populations are booming as well

[osspasha]

I came to canada on study permit, paid 120K in tuition to do engineering. then i got post graduate work permit (3 years) ,i found a job. after spending 6 years am not yet eligible to apply for immigration. i need at least one year experience in my field, now am eligible to apply, oh wait i have to write an english exam that cost almost 300$ (but i did university in canada. Sir, this is regulation. Ok done that ) now they accepted me. apply under canadian experience, all fees and wat not costed me $2500 just to apply. bear in mind when they finally approve my application, i will have to pay $490 "right for permanent resident fees"

another guy who came as a refugee, has a criminal record, doesnt speak english. applied he got his papers without paying a dime and didnt even do an english exam, the only english he can speak is wat he can sing from hip hop music loool. oh did i mention when he got his papers he went back to his country !

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by 94boosted


What the heck I didn't even know there was such an option, so you "invest" $800K in the Canadian Economy, get your Citizenship and then you get it all back 5 years later? So in essence you've bought your citizenship for whatever the potential money you could have made by investing the 800K over 5 years is?

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigra...tors/index.asp

Yup, been like that forever. Government does want you to succeed in helping to prop up the economy. But immigrants ended up finding all loopholes they can find to get citizenship. That's why they closed the program in 2012.

A lot Chinese are even ok with losing all $800K to get citizenship.

[faiz999]

Originally posted by GTS4tw

When looking at these statistics you should consider the fact that more educated immigrants are coming here and are willing to work for less money, thus causing less jobs for younger people born in Canada. This brings more poverty to the Non-immigrant Canadians and drives the crime rate in that demographic up.

or forcing canadians to improve their education system, so its on par with the countries that are sending immigrants over.

dont blame the immigrants for being better educated than our citizens. blame your government for not giving a shit about your kids or what they are learning.

[faiz999]

Originally posted by FraserB
I have no problem with immigration, so long as you are being useful and putting back into society. If you want to come here, work as little as possible and not bother to learn English etc..., then GTFO.

can we apply this to citizens that were born here as well? wouldnt mind kicking out some low lifes that dont deserve to be here either, regardless of their birthplace.

[faiz999]

Originally posted by Feruk

Actually economics 101 says you need EITHER an increase in population, or an increase in technological innovation.

yes, but I think (and this is my opinion) an increase in population usually means there are more ppl to CREATE the technological innovation that helps an economy grow.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by faiz999



or forcing canadians to improve their education system, so its on par with the countries that are sending immigrants over.

dont blame the immigrants for being better educated than our citizens. blame your government for not giving a shit about your kids or what they are learning.

None of which solves the "working for less money" aspect. Congrats on a standup debate!