Tesla D

[supe]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


I think there is a new C63 AMG coming out that will be faster than 3.2 actually.... but as you mentioned, that isn't the point.

As far as "showcasing" EV's, I thought that was the whole point of the roadster. They have been down this road already, the've proven that EV's can be sporty.

Time to stop dicking around and get to work on making EV's mainstream instead of 100K one-off's that nobody can afford.

For 120K, the BMW i8 seems a hell of a lot more appealing than some "D" version of the already outdated "S"

To your point I actually agree with you spot on. I think everything they announced is cool but for the consumer all they did was make an expensive car more expensive. Thats why I didn't mention the stock which for now is rightfully down.

I can't afford the S, let alone the D, but I do however think that the D needs to be proven to make the X as good as it can be. Look at what the Cayenne did for Porsche.

As for the Model 3, I can't wait for this car, and the market can't either. I disagree that in 3 years there will be many competitors in the EV space, because automotive companies move painfully slow, but in the bigger picture competition is a good thing for consumers.

[killramos]

Originally posted by supe


I can't afford the S, let alone the D, but I do however think that the D needs to be proven to make the X as good as it can be. Look at what the Cayenne did for Porsche.

You really are bad at identifying innovation.

The Cayenne's success was literally taking a touareg(which its parent company had already designed), shinning it up. And charging 30% more.

Also not innovative.

Actually it sounds similar to what tesla is doing yet again. Release an incremental change and bask in fanboys glory.

Good business decisions =/= innovation

[supe]

Originally posted by killramos


You really are bad at identifying innovation.

The Cayenne's success was literally taking a touareg(which its parent company had already designed), shinning it up. And charging 30% more.

Also not innovative.

Actually it sounds similar to what tesla is doing yet again. Release an incremental change and bask in fanboys glory.

Good business decisions =/= innovation

I didn't equate anything about the X to innovation. However whats your point about the Cayenne? My point is that the X sales will be very high because people love SUV's, SUV's which need a good AWD system.

[Mibz]

Originally posted by supe
the D needs to be proven to make the X as good as it can be. Look at what the Cayenne did for Porsche.

Originally posted by supe
My point is that the X sales will be very high because people love SUV's, SUV's which need a good AWD system.

Your point was that they need to prove their AWD system before putting it in an SUV, and you're wrong. SUVs don't need "good" AWD systems to succeed, they just need to have an "AWD" badge on there for some buyers.

The AWD in a CRV vs a Cayenne vs a Grand Cherokee are all completely different - they all serve different purposes - but they all sell because they check that box certain SUV buyers require. If you seriously think that an enthusiast car buyer, let alone the average SUV buyer, can give you details of how the AWD drivetrain in a specific vehicle works then you're out to lunch.

At this point you're just making up reasons for the D to exist because innovation is no longer on the table.

[benyl]

If SUVs need a good AWD system, then why is BMW bringing an X5 with RWD only to the US? Why are 2WD SUVs plentiful in the US?

AWD doesn't sell SUVs. They never leave pavement and the vast majority of the US doesn't get snow.

[supe]

Ok all good points, however I think Tesla's AWD is a bit of a different animal than traditional ICE. Tesla's AWD actually makes the car better in almost every way, better mileage, more power, and of course 4 wheel handling. Keep in mind the D is an option for all models including the X.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[killramos]

Originally posted by supe
Ok all good points, however I think Tesla's AWD is a bit of a different animal than traditional ICE. Tesla's AWD actually makes the car better in almost every way, better mileage, more power, and of course 4 wheel handling. Keep in mind the D is an option for all models including the X.

He is serious...

[Mibz]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
I think the CRV was offered in a 2WD format in the US and it sells a lot of those. Ditto on the Kia Soul and Nissan Juke.

Turns out that all of the Top 6 selling SUVs in North America (YTD in 2014: CRV, Escape, Rav4, Equinox, Explorer and Rogue) come standard with FWD.

Originally posted by supe
Tesla's AWD actually makes the car better in almost every way, better mileage, more power, and of course 4 wheel handling. Keep in mind the D is an option for all models including the X.

You're confusing AWD with "The package that includes AWD". AWD cannot create an increase in mileage or power on its own, provided the 2WD system can handle all the power it gets without breaking. In fact, efficiency would be improved by removing that second motor while keeping the rest of the extras from the D package.

As for AWD handling, well whether that's a good thing or not will all depend on how it works.

[mazdavirgin]

The part that always gets me is how people seem to think Elon is some type of tech messiah when he has nothing to do with the innovation or the designs. He is just the poster boy/venture capitalist. Have a look at who is really the brains behind the companies he is involved in. Surprise it's not Elon...

Same thing for Jobs. Neither of those guys could have engineered themselves out of a paper bag.

[supe]

Originally posted by Mibz
The package that includes AWD". AWD cannot create an increase in mileage or power on its own, provided the 2WD system can handle all the power it gets without breaking. In fact, efficiency would be improved by removing that second motor while keeping the rest of the extras from the D package.

I have no idea what you mean, I thought the D package is the extra motor. I thought it was the extra motor that creates the extra power, and is also the reason why mileage is increased.

[kenny]

Originally posted by supe


I have no idea what you mean, I thought the D package is the extra motor. I thought it was the extra motor that creates the extra power, and is also the reason why mileage is increased.

The single motor is replaced by two smaller motors on the D package and the system probably doesn't always run both motors at full power so there are some gains (up to 30 miles on the 85kwh model).

On the P85D, the existing motor isn't changed, but they add in a second smaller motor up front. Again, with a smaller motor up front helping out you get a range boost of 10 miles.

Kind of a moot point because this is probably only under ideal conditions. With moderate acceleration, range probably drops quite a bit on the dual motor setups.

[supe]

Thanks, I didn't realize that. Thats pretty cool, the range difference between the 85D and the P85D is somewhat significant at 20 miles.

So just to be clear, adding the second motor DOES make it more efficient, if only nominally for all models. Tesla says that the regen gains overwhelms the added weight.

[jacky4566]

Yes, Under ideal conditions. I bet the range is much worse at full tilt.
Also keep in mind electric motors are most efficient at 60-80% load.

[Czar]

The technology used for identifying and alerting drivers to hazards on the road is actually the work of a company called Mobileye. All the major car manufactured license their technology. I doubt Tesla would go out on their own to this.

Mobileye also makes their stuff available for consumers as an aftermarket device.


As far as allowing the car to turn itself, all manufacturers can do that. I remember reading an article that said that they decided on feedback to the driver (ie. lights, noise, vibrations, etc) instead of actively turning the car for you.

Personally I would never let the car steer for me in any high-speed situation.

Originally posted by kenny


Mercedes-Benz vehicles have been reading speed signs since 2008.

http://techcenter.mercedes-benz.com/...st/detail.html

http://media.daimler.com/dcmedia/0-9...0-0-0-0-0.html


and Nissan autonomous vehicles can change lanes on their own, in a car that costs about 1/4 of a Model S no less.

http://www.latimes.com/business/auto...717-story.html

I know you were excited about Elon Musk showing you the D, but really now... worse than apple fanboys.

[benyl]

Originally posted by Czar


Personally I would never let the car steer for me in any high-speed situation.

I've driven to drumheller and Banff at the speed limit with the car driving it self most of the way. Steering works fine and I've never had to intervene.

[kevie88]

For those of us who don't care who did it first, Tesla looks like a winner.. I can't think of a single EV I'd rather have right now. Rarely in history has 'the first guy to do it' won out in the end.

I'm sure Tesla's cars will kick start the EV industry among the major industry players.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by kevie88
For those of us who don't care who did it first, Tesla looks like a winner.. I can't think of a single EV I'd rather have right now. Rarely in history has 'the first guy to do it' won out in the end.

I'm sure Tesla's cars will kick start the EV industry among the major industry players.

I agree but...

With D, Elon overhyped and under delivered.
http://www.siliconbeat.com/2014/10/1...ntinues-slide/

I think this is a good mmc before the X is released. But it doesn't warrant this kind of hype.

I would be pissed too if I spent $100k and find out 2 weeks later I got the smaller D.

BTW are those superchargers ready between Calgary and Edmonton or Vancouver yet?

Edit: http://www.channelnewsasia.com/news/...e/1412342.html

Looks like very promising new tech in the battery front and may reach EVs in probably 5 to 6 years time.

[01RedDX]

.

[supe]

Motor Trend's review of the P85D:

The P85D accelerates like nothing else we’ve tested. With electric-fast reactions, its traction control matches wheel torque to available road grip to produce the launch of the gods.

Read more: http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/...#ixzz3I1zZhbri