Brexit > Bremain

[ExtraSlow]

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They're fighting over how much Exit is in Brexit.

Some people want integrated customs, and other such things, but that's largely against the spirit of the vote of the people and the Brexiters.

Are those things really options at this point? I thought the EU had already finalized the brexit terms?

[Buster]

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Are those things really options at this point? I thought the EU had already finalized the brexit terms?

They're trying to put a deal in place between the EU and Britain. The problem is such a deal could replace a lot of the things that Brexit people wanted for exit: negotiation of their own free trade deals, etc. So a lot of Brexit supporters are leaving May and resigning because they feel the deal replaces too much of the EU's original control. They probably even have enough clout to toss May, and start up a new deal with the EU which would give the EU much less influence over the UK's trade policies. It's pretty much pure chaos.

[kertejud2]

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Are those things really options at this point? I thought the EU had already finalized the brexit terms?

They aren’t options, but now the worry is that even the old status quo (‘lets just forget this whole thing’)isn’t an option either since that already had more concessions to The UK than France and Germany cared for since those deals were made back when the UK had a lot more leverage. So there isn’t any way to go but down when it comes to the UKs position in Europe.

[ExtraSlow]

I guess either way it's good for people from Canada who want to travel to Britain. A low pound and depressed economy should make stuff cheaper for tourists! Always a bright side.

[kertejud2]

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I guess either way it's good for people from Canada who want to travel to Britain. A low pound and depressed economy should make stuff cheaper for tourists! Always a bright side.

My portfolio of thirty pounds and change leftover from my last trip is taking a hit, though.

[tonytiger55]

I was trying to read up on the details and watch BBC news(youtube) to make sense of where they are now.
I was just about to post and I was about to make the tea.. I realised ive run out of milk. FML.
Will post in a bit, need to nip out and get some milk.

[Misterman]

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I guess either way it's good for people from Canada who want to travel to Britain. A low pound and depressed economy should make stuff cheaper for tourists! Always a bright side.

Until of course the value of their economy is realized now that it won't be drug down by the EU.

[ExtraSlow]

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Until of course the value of their economy is realized now that it won't be drug down by the EU.

Sure, closed economies usually grow.

[HiTempguy1]

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Sure, open economies with the ability to negotiate trade deals worldwide usually grow.

Correct you are sir.

[ExtraSlow]

I'm really thankful and grateful for the members of beyond who take time to educate me. Never too old to learn!

[tonytiger55]

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What in the fuck is happening in Britain? Can you smart folks explain this?

The UK is going to leave Europe. The question is how do they leave. Some people want certain trade ties and rules to be in place. i.e freedom of movement, court of justice etc.
Or do they leave completely and go to WTO rules. This has huge implications in terms of trade, negotiations, laws, product rules, fishing and farming.

The current deal (from what I can find) is a load of shit. Right now any rules, the UK has a say in how the rules are made. With the new deal (the UK leaving), some of those rules are still in place. The only difference is the UK does not have a say. It basically becomes Europes bitch. Pretty much how France is to Germany.

There is a problem of the northern Ireland Border. That is blown up by constant fear mongering. Yes its is a delicate situation, but technically there is a border there right now. Politicians on the opposition keep playing the fear card. There is no easy solution to this.

The opposition parties keep fucking things up by undermining the governments negotiating position and pushing towards a second referendum. This is dangerous. The demographics have changed and it has implications in law, i.e if you don't like the first verdict do you just keep voting..? Imagine a second vote on the Calgary Olympics as an example. They keep focusing on the negatives turmoil etc.

Any economy that moves in a different direction will have a period of adjusting. There are also arguments that once the UK leaves it cannot secure trade deals with big partners. Again there is a lot of miss information, as the UK is so small it does not need trade deals as it can just go on WTO rules and operate on those. Again the opposition parties are fucking things up with miss information.

There is a net benefit of the UK going to WTO rules. It also means smaller government. Right now you have the UK parliament, House of Lords and then the EU. There are so many layers of government that it does a lot of harm.

People are resigning from the current government as it is a shit deal. It wont pass the UK parliament, as the members in norther Ireland wont support this deal as it does not work in their favour (i.e the border issue). It cant leave completely as not enough members in government to vote for complete Brexit. So its a minority government. The opposition is going all guns for a second vote.

The people voted to leave and the politicians are refusing to represent that vote in its purest form.

[Xtrema]

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I guess either way it's good for people from Canada who want to travel to Britain. A low pound and depressed economy should make stuff cheaper for tourists! Always a bright side.

For awhile... until they couldn't afford/get any imported EU products and they go back to eating offal again.

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What in the fuck is happening in Britain? Can you smart folks explain this?

UK hates EU immigration policies and gypsies and Africans migrants.

UK want to have its own immigration policy and borders again. But keep free trade to EU.

EU doesn't want to have free trade without free movement. But basically want to make sure UK will be as bad as possible as a warning to other states thinking of leaving.

UK voted to leave, in the smallest margin. Now government got mandate to leave.

Problem: Scotland doesn't want to leave EU, may trigger referendum again like 4 years ago to split. Northern Ireland doesn't want to leave EU, may trigger unification with Ireland which is their right under the 1997 GFA


Theresa May now have to come up with a Brexit deal that doesn't legally can cost them Scotland and Northern Ireland and depress London's financial sector while appeasing Brexiters and bargaining from a position of weakness. There is a good chance that UK can be reverted back to being called England after Brexit.

IMO, any vote to leave a union of any kind should require 60+1 instead of 50+1.

[HiTempguy1]

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.

IMO, any vote to leave a union of any kind should require 60+1 instead of 50+1.

Did it take more than 50% to join in? No? Than f off imo.

[Xtrema]

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Did it take more than 50% to join in? No? Than f off imo.

Yes. 67% voted for EU membership in 1975. You can probably argue about not needing it but support was there.

[tonytiger55]

Problem: Scotland doesn't want to leave EU, may trigger referendum again like 4 years ago to split. Northern Ireland doesn't want to leave EU, may trigger unification with Ireland which is their right under the 1997 GFA

Scotland is a interesting case. Their opinion does not even count, its a classic example of just shit stirring so nothing gets done.

Scotland HAD a referendum to leave the UK and be a independent country. In doing so they would have left the EU. A lot of people don't realise that. They automatically don't become a member of the EU. It does not work like that at all. Sure they could have joined the EU, but only once they sorted their country and institutions out.

The Scottish National party is so dumb. In the referendum they did not layout how they would budget/or work as a independent country. They would need their own border force, civic institutions for the services to run the country, they would need like everything. They would also be taking on a lot of debit. Here is the best part, they could not fully figure out what currency they would use. They could not use the Euro as they would not be part of the EU. They said it still would be the British Sterling, don't know how that would work as they could not set their own interest rates.
The SNP kicked a lot of fuss about independence, but when it actually came down to it. They had fuck all idea.

So a lot of Scottish people in retirement or coming into retirement realised their honey pot fund would go to shit while the New Scotland figured itself out. Hence they voted to remain part of the union. A lot of young Scottish people were pissed of at the elderly.

So a second referendum on Scotland leaving the UK because they are no longer part of the EU is just bollocks. But people are too dumb to realise that. But it is plausible.

[Xtrema]

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So a second referendum on Scotland leaving the UK because they are no longer part of the EU is just bollocks. But people are too dumb to realise that. But it is plausible.

In the age of Trump and brexit, nothing is impossible.

[tonytiger55]

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In the age of Trump and brexit, nothing is impossible.

I agree its not impossible. I hope there is, I want Scotland out. In the last referendum I was hoping they would just bugger off and leave.

Buts not a valid argument for the Scots. Had they left the UK, they would have been out of the EU.
So Scotland arguing that they want a second referendum because the UK is going out of the EU does not make sense, as they would have been out of the EU anyway.
Teresa May actually shut down a SNP politician over this very issue. It was during Prime Ministers questions on this argument about year ago.

But your right, if it goes to a no deal Brexit to which I hope it does. Scotland might get a second referendum. But I think Westminster will only give it once the dust has settled and the economy realigns and goes back on the up (5-7 years).

It will make the Scots think, do we want to continue part of this glorious Britannia that is becoming the Western Lion. Or do the Scots want to huddle over cold porridge on a overcast wet Tuesday afternoon. While they watch a rerun of game of thrones, and silently sob the old song of 'Scotland the brave' to themselves and jealously eye over Hadrian's Wall to the South.

Who knows...?

[ExtraSlow]

An independent Scotland would be pretty poor, like Greece if they managed to get into the EU. It's such a bealutiful country, but not economically viable by itself.

[kertejud2]

[tonytiger55]

In this shorterned Video, the arguments are presented to a select committee. Look at how the labour politicians are plain out refusing to understand. Unconscious Bias..?



The population of Alberta is 4.3 million. The population of the UK is 66 Million and the UK can fit into Alberta easily with room to spare.

Think of the purchasing power of goods and services. As a business owner you are locked into the EU. This made sense in the 1970's. With today global trade and communications vasty improved and 3rd world countries industrialising, the global market is vastly different. With Brexit, a business owner now can buy from the EU or the rest of the world.
If the UK stays in the EU. Business owners have a constant supply of cheap labour. This forces wages down. This has a huge effect that you are seeing now with people who cannot buy homes, cars, starting a family (Why do you think I immigrated to Canada..?). This has built up over the last 25 years. This in turn has a massive impact on the economy. Then in turn the government has to spend more on social programs. The recipient of the social programs are then likely to vote Labour (Left of centre).

Anther reason. Again business will complain they need internationa skills. Well there are 160 universities in the UK and thats not including the colleges. Are they not churning out skills..? Businesses wont hire these people, why would they hire a graduate or give them a chance when they can hire from outside cheaper?
Now that graduate is stuck in a low paying job (just as I was), he cannot progress, car, house, family. Think of the economic costs to the economy. Then the government at some point has to subsidise them with benefits. There are a number of people in my generation that faced this issue. Some went to Australia, some took a chance with nothing and came to Canada like I did.
If the UK leaves, it can set its immigration and work-permits like Canada and Australia. On a needs basis. UK Businesses have to turn to the 160 Universities and colleges in the UK to address the skills that are required.

Two reasons reason ive listed above. Then there many many other reasons, take crime. Serious Organised crime has found loopholes. If a confiscation order has been issued, lawyers can keep litigating and taking it up to the European Human rights court. This inevitably loses. But by the time this happens the confiscation order has expired.
Do you have any idea how hard it was to deport Abu Qatada..? It was raised by Europe his human rights would be violated.

People voted for various reasons for Brexit, not one.

The British currency, historical trading relationships, position in the world is of a very high value.
If the UK leaves, there is no guarantee the UK will buy the services and products of Europe like it does now. The French, German, Spain, and Italian products will have to compete with the rest of the world for the UK market (66 Million) that sits right on their doorstep.