Omar Khadr awarded $10.5 million

[CompletelyNumb]

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I kind of think if you leave the country to go fight against Canada, you should be stripped of your citizenship immediately upon discovery of this information.

Agreed

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He should never have been Canadian to begin with.

Also agreed I think being born in a country and automatically gaining citizenship, regardless of how illegal your pregnant mothers presence was, is a horrible law.

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But he is. And not liking that he's a citizen isn't a reason that can be used to revoke one's citizenship.

And this is the real source of the problem, and the payout. We can argue right and wrong, deserving or not, criminal, terrorist, murderer, monster, etc.

Doesn't change the fact that he was Canadian, he has rights, and 3 governments in a row failed to protect them.

He's smart enough to take advantage of Canada.

[dj_patm]

Just to sum up the Conservative thinking in this thread:

- Children of Parents who entered the country illegally should be stateless
- Child soldiers are responsible for their actions and deserve to have their humans rights stripped
- Fighting back against foreign military that is invading your home is treason
- Torture on minors is cool
- The prime minister should intervene when the law and courts give out a ruling that some of the voters don't like.
- Charter of Rights and Freedoms is just a suggestion and the will of the majority should rule

[Sugarphreak]

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[HiTempguy1]

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Just to sum up the Liberal thinking in this thread:

WAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH

Apparently I already gave you rep recently. So instead, you just get an internet hi-five. Feels like you are channeling your inner CUG (I miss him).

[Gestalt]

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Just to sum up the Liberal thinking in this thread:

WAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH

You tarts have a weird definition of what whining is.

The people that accept what is, or the ones crying about it. Another thread with you and hitemp ndp guy crying "boohoo, it should not be like it is".

Easterners. shit, who let those guys in? Crying about something straightforeward, and then wrong on every sinlge one of your arguemnets.

[dirtsniffer]

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... Crying about something straightforeward, and then wrong on every sinlge one of your arguemnets.

only 2 typos, 1 grammatical error and 1 spelling mistake. good for you, you're getting better.

[dj_patm]

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Just to sum up the Liberal thinking in this thread:

WAAAAAHHHHHHHHHH

lol you guys are the ones whining about the courts award among many other stupid things to complain about.

[Gestalt]

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lol you guys are the ones whining about the courts award among many other stupid things to complain about.

Ha. No shit. Hes the worst. Every post is boohoo, rights. Boohoo liberals. Boohoo ndp boohoo greens. Boohoo muslims. Boohoo ring road. Boohoo tsu tina

[A790]

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only 2 typos, 1 grammatical error and 1 spelling mistake. good for you, you're getting better.

You make a solid point: good grammar is important. With only two grammatical mistakes in your own post, you've shown Gestalt that it's possible to create a post (and edit it 11 minutes later) with exactly 50% of the errors!

[Buster]

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Just to sum up the Conservative thinking in this thread:

- Children of Parents who entered the country illegally should be stateless
- Child soldiers are responsible for their actions and deserve to have their humans rights stripped
- Fighting back against foreign military that is invading your home is treason
- Torture on minors is cool
- The prime minister should intervene when the law and courts give out a ruling that some of the voters don't like.
- Charter of Rights and Freedoms is just a suggestion and the will of the majority should rule

I think there are some facts here that still bear consideration and that aren't being addressed by the "Kadr is blameless" group of people.

- The incentive to use child soldiers is that they are treated differently than adult soldiers and as a result can be more dangerous. Our actions can reinforce these incentives.
- A person of 15 can drive legally in many countries, is only a couple of years away from voting, and can be drafted into any pro sports league. Let's be cautious with the over-use of the term "child".
- If you are a Canadian citizen fighting in a war against canadian forces, and are considered a combatant in a war zone, I'm not sure declaring yourself "home" is safe haven. It's irrelevant to the discussion. Kadr should be considered one of either a terrorist or a combatant. He's not nothing.

[Gestalt]

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- If you are a Canadian citizen fighting in a war against canadian forces, and are considered a combatant in a war zone, I'm not sure declaring yourself "home" is safe haven. It's irrelevant to the discussion. Kadr should be considered one of either a terrorist or a combatant. He's not nothing.

Was he fighting Canadians? There was no battle against Canadian forces. The small residential complex was attacked by American and Afghan mercenaries. He had been in Afghanistan for years and years, Canada only joined the US in the conflict a few months before he was blown up and shot.

Could you prove in a court of law that he was a terrorist? They could not even prove he was a combatant, and had to torture and indefinately hold him till they got the false confession in exchange for promise of a trial. Realistically, this incident could be chalked up to self defense. A random attack by an over whelming American force. If anything, and only if he thru the grenade, he was acting in self defense.

From around February 2002, a team of American soldiers were using the abandoned Soviet airbase in Khost, Afghanistan, as an intelligence-gathering outpost, where they tried to blend in and gain the trust of the local community.[29] In the early morning of July 27, 2002, a team made up of 19th Special Forces Group, the 505th Infantry Regiment and a "militia" of about twenty[32] Afghan fighters loyal to the warlord Pacha Khan Zadran and led by his brother Kamal, had been sent from the airbase on a reconnaissance mission.[29][32][33][34][35] The US forces' search turned up no evidence against the occupants of a house they checked out.[36][37]

Wikisource has original text related to this article:
1. Five Service Members Wounded in Afghan Ambush
2. Five Injured in most recent Afghan firefight awarded Purple Hearts

While the US soldiers were at the house, a report came in that a monitored satellite phone had just been used 300–600 metres from the group's location.[32][35][36] Seven soldiers were sent to investigate the site of the phone call.[29][32] Led by Major Randy Watt, the group included XO Captain Mike Silver, Sgt Christopher Speer, Layne Morris and Master Sgt. Scotty Hansen, the latter three from the 19th Special Forces Group; Spc. Christopher J. Vedvick from the 505th, and his fire team.[29][32][38]

The men reached a residential complex with earthen huts and a granary surrounded by a 10-foot (3.0 m) stone wall, with a green metal gate approximately 100 metres from the main hut. They saw children playing around the buildings[23][37][39][40] and an old man sleeping under a nearby tree.[32]

Seeing five men he described as "well-dressed" sitting around a fire in the main residence, with AK-47s visible in the room, Morris has said that he either approached and told the occupants to open the front door[40] or that he stayed out of sight, returned to his men and set up a perimeter around the complex.[32] Either way, the team waited 45 minutes for support from the soldiers searching the first residence. At one point, Morris chided the soldiers from the 82nd for setting up a defensive perimeter with their backs to the house, rather than covering the house.[32][35]

A crowd of about 100 local Afghans had gathered around the area to watch the incident unfold.[40] An Afghan militiaman was sent toward the house to demand the surrender of the occupants, but retreated under gunfire.[36]

Capt. Christopher W. Cirino
Reinforcements from the 3rd Platoon of Bravo Company, 1st Battalion 505th Infantry Regiment arrived under the command of Captain Christopher W. Cirino,[39][41] bringing the total number of Americans and Afghan militia to about fifty.[42] Two of Zadran's militia were sent into the compound to speak with the residents; they returned to the US position and reported that the men claimed to be Pashtun villagers. The Americans told them to return and say the Americans wanted to search their house regardless of their affiliation.[41] Upon hearing this, the occupants of the hut opened fire, shooting both militiamen.[37][43]

Several women fled the huts and ran away, while the occupants began throwing grenades at the American troops, with intermittent rifle fire. After the firefight, one of the soldiers contradicted this, saying only one woman and one child were present, and both were detained by US forces after exiting the huts.[36]

orris and Silver took up positions outside the stone wall.[29] Morris fell back into Silver, with a cut above his right eye and shrapnel embedded in his nose. At first, Morris and Silver thought the wound was due to Morris's rifle malfunctioning, but it was later attributed to an unseen grenade.[29][44] In an alternate account, Morris has said that he was inside the compound and hiding behind the granary, preparing to fire a grenade into a wall of the house, when he was shot.[32] Morris was dragged a safe distance from the action, and was shortly after joined by Spc. Michael Rewakowski, Pfc. Brian Worth and Spc. Christopher J. Vedvick, who had also been wounded by the grenade attacks.[45]

At 9:10 UTC, they sent a request for MedEvac to the 57th Medical Detachment. Ten minutes later, a pair of UH-60s were deployed, with AH-64 Apaches as escort. Arriving at the scene, the Apaches strafed the compound with cannon and rocket fire, while the medical helicopters remained 12 miles (19 km) from the ongoing firefight.[33] The helicopters landed at 10:28 UTC to load the wounded aboard.[33][46] A pair of A-10 Warthogs performed gun runs and dropped 500lb bombs on the compound.[29][33]

At this point,[36] a five-vehicle convoy of ground reinforcements arrived, bringing the number of troops to approximately 100.[42] Two of these vehicles were damaged beyond use by the militants.[36] Ten minutes later, the MedEvac left for Bagram Airbase and planes arrived, bombing the houses along with the helicopters.[36] The MedEvac reached Bagram Airfield at 1130.[32][33]

Unaware that Khadr and another militant had survived the bombing, the ground forces sent a team consisting of OC-1,[36] Silver, Speer and three Delta Force soldiers[47] through a hole in the south side of the wall.[48]

[Buster]

i have no obligation to form my judgement based on a court of law. Given his statements then, since, and the rest of the evidence, I'm comfortable concluding that he was a participant in the conflict (building bombs, doing dastardly deeds, etc). He's certainly not neutral in the conflict.

[Gestalt]

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i have no obligation to form my judgement based on a court of law. Given his statements then, since, and the rest of the evidence, I'm comfortable concluding that he was a participant in the conflict (building bombs, doing dastardly deeds, etc). He's certainly not neutral in the conflict.

Of course not, but your clouded opinion you formed on assumptions and your felings is iralavent.

And more, you are making a mistake, stating you are stating facts, when in fact, they are furthest from that, and simply your eroneous opinion.

And thats a good thing that we have an agreed upon legal procedure, and dont condmen people on feelings of emotionaly driven forum users. that make stuff up.

[Buster]

Opinions aren't the same as feelings. And I didn't form them on assumptions. I'm forming them based on some facts - whether they survive the test of a criminal court is of no interest to me. If this is strictly a discussion about legal procedural, that's not very interesting. The court of public opinion is always more interesting (and probably more important since it drives new policy).

[Gestalt]

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Opinions aren't the same as feelings. And I didn't form them on assumptions. I'm forming them based on some facts - whether they survive the test of a criminal court is of no interest to me. If this is strictly a discussion about legal procedural, that's not very interesting. The court of public opinion is always more interesting (and probably more important since it drives new policy).

They are the same, because you drew them from how you feel, not from any rational fact. And you keep repeating the same made up stuff to satisfy how you feel.

This is only true of emotional thinkers as yourself. Naturally, a logical thinker makes sure the argument flows the premisses, and that they too are true.

I statreted with an opinion early in this thread, and then on actual available facts, i changed my mind. Thats rational. You just keep digging a deeper hole citing the same wrong reasons. So, basically, you are my wife

[Buster]

I see nowhere here where I based my opinion on anything other than facts available to me. If new facts arise I will alter my view accordingly. Until then, my conclusion remains the same: Kadr was a bad guy, doing bad things, for a variety of complex reasons. The Canadian gov't handled the entire thing poorly from day one until now (three different governments). I see no reason that any of those conclusions should be altered. Unless you are willing to ignore some very germane facts about Kadr himself. You're welcome to do so. I don't think it is reasonable to make a different conclusion about him, give what we know. But in that regard one of us is right, and one of us is wrong. I do think you have built your view on the topic around a bunch of things you want to be true, rather than being objective.

[Sugarphreak]

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[Majestic12]

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crooked toolbox of Liberal technicalities and loopholes

Really, the only ones trying to exploit loopholes or find excuses are the ones condemning the SCC's decision. These are the nutshell facts that led us here: 1. Khadr is a Canadian citizen. 2. Khadr was detained by the US government and held illegally and subjected to treatment in breach of the Geneva Conventions and the UN Convention Against Torture and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading Treatment or Punishment. 3. Canadian representatives were complicit in that process.

Anything to do with him being a terrorist, a child soldier, a traitorous piece of shit or whatever the fuck else, is completely irrelevant. Especially when those allegations are confirmed under torture. What are the loopholes? The decision didn't rely on some technicalities or obscure rules. The SCC's ruling was crystal clear.

[Sugarphreak]

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[Majestic12]

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The court of public opinion is always more interesting (and probably more important since it drives new policy).

I would completely disagree with this. Especially when it comes to legal matters, nobody gives a shit what the public thinks. At the end of the day, the court's ruling is what will win the day.

- - - Updated - - -

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You really should take a few minutes and go back and read a few of my posts where I outline my stance, because I don't dispute this at all

Maybe. I'm late to the discussion, so I only read the last few posts. Haha.