Notley threatening sanctions on BC for inhibiting Kinder expansion.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

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#realtalk

#uhhhrealuuuhtalk

[tirebob]

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Canada needs Alberta's money in a serious way. Alberta's transfer money literally keeps Confederation from falling apart. Our money bribes Quebec. Without Alberta's money, Quebec and the maritime provinces will have even more gigantic deficits than they do now. Massive tax increases for them will have to happen, or massive cuts in spending.

There's a reason why the federal Liberals speak out of both sides of their mouth when it comes to Alberta.

So here is a question... How much money in real dollars (or percentages) does Alberta contribute to equalization payments compared to the other Canadian provinces? Everything I seem to find only says how much money the provinces take from it...

[Seth1968]

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Biting the hand that feeds them.

I've been saying that since day one as well. That's why I responded with, "votes or economy" in a previous post. That is, appease the typical ignorant voter for votes, or piss them off when you say that alternative energy is a good thing, but is far from being viable on many levels.

Now above and beyond that, this speaks to a governmental system that is archaic and backwards. That is, embraced because such idiocy is so ingrained as it's now become the norm.

What Canadians call a democracy, and the US people shout the same, is fucking pathetic. But the people buy it.

[Go4Long]

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So here is a question... How much money in real dollars (or percentages) does Alberta contribute to equalization payments compared to the other Canadian provinces? Everything I seem to find only says how much money the provinces take from it...

https://globalnews.ca/news/3594737/a...ser-institute/

Alberta contributed more money to the federal purse than any other province in Canada from 2007 to 2015, and has received fewer dollars in return, according to a study released Thursday.

The study by the Fraser Institute — a conservative, free market policy think tank — found the province contributed $221.4 billion more in revenue than it received in federal transfer payments and other services in those years.

That works out to about $5,000 per Albertan, per year, according to Ben Eisen, director of the Fraser Institute’s Alberta Prosperity Initiative.

“It’s really impossible to get away from the fact that without a strong Alberta, without Alberta’s contribution to Canada and to federal finances, our federal finances would be an absolute mess,” Eisen said.

The report said that of the $158.3 billion paid out in equalization payments from 2008/09 to 2017/18, roughly $28.1 billion came from Alberta.

[Hallowed_point]

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Alberta separation has gone from "let's think about it." To something that is painfully obvious.

Yes

[tirebob]

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https://globalnews.ca/news/3594737/a...ser-institute/

No I saw that kind of stuff too, but I am wondering what the real numbers are province to province, or I guess in a more detailed sense, how much each individual tax payer pays per province on average. Surprisingly tough statistic to find.

[HiTempguy1]

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No I saw that kind of stuff too, but I am wondering what the real numbers are province to province, or I guess in a more detailed sense, how much each individual tax payer pays per province on average. Surprisingly tough statistic to find.

It said $5k per Albertan per year. Its f*&king insane.

The fact is, many provinces don't pay, and those that SHOULD pay (Ontario) do not have to anyways. The fact anyone is ok with this just completely floors me.

[tirebob]

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It said $5k per Albertan per year. Its f*&king insane.

The fact is, many provinces don't pay, and those that SHOULD pay (Ontario) do not have to anyways. The fact anyone is ok with this just completely floors me.

Yes I get that is how much it says we pay. I am just curious as to how it compares to the per capita in the other provinces. I definitely am not okay with the current methods of transfer payments, although I am okay with helping provinces fairly. Just how to do it fairly is the real question.

[Buster]

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I've been saying that since day one as well. That's why I responded with, "votes or economy" in a previous post. That is, appease the typical ignorant voter for votes, or piss them off when you say that alternative energy is a good thing, but is far from being viable on many levels.

Now above and beyond that, this speaks to a governmental system that is archaic and backwards. That is, embraced because such idiocy is so ingrained as it's now become the norm.

What Canadians call a democracy, and the US people shout the same, is fucking pathetic. But the people buy it.

you have to remember that most canadians are gestalt or dj_palm.

[HiTempguy1]

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Yes I get that is how much it says we pay. I am just curious as to how it compares to the per capita in the other provinces. I definitely am not okay with the current methods of transfer payments, although I am okay with helping provinces fairly. Just how to do it fairly is the real question.

They don't. I'm sorry, honest question, are you being obtuse?

That $5k/Albertan/year figure is not gross. It is net $$$ that never returns.

Quebec
Manitoba
Nova Scotia
New Brunswick
Ontario
Prince Edward Island

All of these received positive inflows of cash over and above their "contribution". Alberta received less than they contributed.

[dj_patm]

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you have to remember that most canadians are gestalt or dj_palm.

He says, as he quotes a post that agrees with me.

[tirebob]

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They don't. I'm sorry, honest question, are you being obtuse?

That $5k/Albertan/year figure is not gross. It is net $$$ that never returns.

Quebec
Manitoba
Nova Scotia
New Brunswick
Ontario
Prince Edward Island

All of these received positive inflows of cash over and above their "contribution". Alberta received less than they contributed.

Not being deliberately obtuse. Alberta is not the only province to not receive payments. Some provinces receive some payments, but maybe contribute more than they get back. Other provinces get way more back than they pay into it. My question was regarding how the individual costs per tax payer per province vary... That is it. Not how much we pay only.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[dirtsniffer]

https://lop.parl.ca/Content/LOP/Rese...?cat=economics



For every $2 we send to Ottawa, we only get $1 back.

[tirebob]

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https://lop.parl.ca/Content/LOP/Rese...?cat=economics



For every $2 we send to Ottawa, we only get $1 back.

That is getting a bit closer to what I was looking for! It isn't quite reflecting solely the "equalization" payment, but if I take that chart as gold, it looks like we are paying out double vs what we get back overall, which is a much higher percentage than every other single province, even including the others receiving no equalization, for sure. How much of that falls under the actual amount of equalization is not quite clear, but the overall variance is definitely concerning.

[HiTempguy1]

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How much of that falls under the actual amount of equalization is not quite clear, but the overall variance is definitely concerning.

Roughly 8% is equalization. The rest is various other government redistribution schemes. Equalization is just a place to start. However,what this basically shows is Alberta would have an extra $6k per person per year in revenue on its own. That's $21billion extra dollars per year.

I am quite positive we could forgo whatever "services" the feds provide us with that much extra money per year, considering Alberta revenue is $45bil per year. $21bil calculated using $6k per person x 3.5 million Albertans.

Alberta has never been a "have not" province. I do not see anything we have gained by being part of confederation besides extortion schemes shoved down our throats (wheat board, NEB, etc).

[phreezee]

So the best Notley had was to not buy $500M of hydro from BC? With shutting down coal I can see our electricity costs going up and hurting Alberta more than BC.

This is what happens when people vote NDP.

[Tik-Tok]

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So the best Notley had was to not buy $500M of hydro from BC? With shutting down coal I can our electricity costs going up and hurting Alberta more than BC.

This is what happens when people vote NDP.

Well, more importantly her saying no to BC electricity means BC won't get the billion dollars from the feds they're asking for to upgrade their system so they can sell it.

Is that not enough leverage for you?

[phreezee]

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Well, more importantly her saying no to BC electricity means BC won't get the billion dollars from the feds they're asking for to upgrade their system so they can sell it.

Is that not enough leverage for you?

What's your source for that? Did Trudope say "umm... we will pull funding if...umm... Alberta doesn't buy"?

Notley has already tried this tactic 2 years ago and the project was already underway and expected to complete in 2024: http://calgaryherald.com/news/politi...st-says-notley

Furthermore, Horgan isn't fond of the project to begin with:

On December 11, 2017, John Horgan, the Premier of British Columbia, announced that "At the end of the day, we've come to a conclusion that, although Site C is not the project we would have favoured or would have started, it must be completed,"[8] thus guaranteeing the completion of the project.

[AndyL]

I think AGLC returning all BC product and stopping ordering...

That would send a fairly strong message since brewery's seem to be 1/4 of their industrial base...

#tradewar !!!