Anyone driven the Kia Stinger?

[94boosted]

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so, 0-60 under 4s? What does extra 3psi brings? Can dealer detect this and void warranty?

No dyno plots yet, who knows what the power gains actually are, I'd expect modest gains, maybe 30-50hp & similar torque.

No warranty issues provided you remember to take the JB4 out prior to dealer visits (takes 5 mins).

[EnRichii]

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Well...what kind of 'loaded' are we talking about though?

Fully Loaded !!!

[Sugarphreak]

...

[blownz]

So I drove the Stinger yesterday and was impressed, but not as impressed as I was with the G70. I think the problem was I drove the G70 first. It definitely rides smoother than the G70. Like the G70 I can't tell much difference between the comfort and sport setting for suspension, but sport is definitely softer than G70 in comfort. Steering and throttle also seem "softer" compared to the G70. That said I think daily driving 100km a day like I do the Stinger might be the nicer car to drive. Definitely love the hatch and the back seat is noticeably roomier. They definitely seem to be willing to move on price, but I don't think it will be more than a few grand since there just isn't much stock yet.

Definitely need to drive the G70 again. And biggest negative for the Stinger is definitely going to be dealing with the dealers...

[ExtraSlow]

If you need to carry clients or adults in the back I think stinger wins easily.

[Tej.S]

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Yah the Juice Box is a piggy back that intercepts a few signals before they get to the ECU and therefore tricks the ECU into thinking it's not making enough boost. It creates a nice little bump in power but more importantly when you remove the piggy back prior to dealer visits it's virtually untraceable, therefore no warranty issues. A lot of the BMW N54/N55 guys use it and it's also widely popular on the MK7 Golf R platform.

Please don't spread misinformation. The ecu records all boost values, and any tune is traceable. They only way to absolutely get around this is buying another stock ecu. If/when something goes wrong, you can kiss your engine/tranny warranty goodbye. When the dealership runs full diagnostics on your ecu, they're able to see if the boost parameters were tampered with. Please don't believe what other people have posted on other forums.

[blownz]

Also worth noting the Stinger has the exact same launch control as in the G70. Really easy to use. I engaged it to make sure it worked like the G70, but then took my foot off the gas as I didn't want to use it as the car only had 11km on it when I left the dealership and the sales guy asked nicely.

[rage2]

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Please don't spread misinformation. The ecu records all boost values, and any tune is traceable. They only way to absolutely get around this is buying another stock ecu. If/when something goes wrong, you can kiss your engine/tranny warranty goodbye. When the dealership runs full diagnostics on your ecu, they're able to see if the boost parameters were tampered with. Please don't believe what other people have posted on other forums.

This. Pretty much everyone is flagging cars for warranty these days. VAG started it all, don't think there's any manufacturer that doesn't care about a tune.

If your engine/tranny goes, they'll be able to detect it's run outside of range at some point. The BMW guys have been using tools to clear codes, but that's to prevent it from getting a car flagged early and getting all warranty denied and becoming a service hassle. If the engine/tranny goes, they'll deny and flag you then.

You can't even get a 2nd ECU with Mercedes. They just won't sell it/code it for you period. They'll only replace ECUs if it's actually broken and keep the old one.

Pay to play.

[Aleks]

I've always wondered, can you get charged with fraud if you tried to pull this off and were busted, or is it strictly having to pay for repairs that's the worst that can happen.

[heavyD]

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I've always wondered, can you get charged with fraud if you tried to pull this off and were busted, or is it strictly having to pay for repairs that's the worst that can happen.

I don't see why not if they have proof that your claim was fraudulent. I'm not sure it would be worth the time or bad publicity for automakers.

[corsvette]

Aftermarket tuning may become a thing of the past. The new GM L5P Duramax is the first diesel out that cannot be tuned period. I hear the ecm is completely uncrackable and nobody wants to go through the huge expanse of engineering a new one. Ford and Ram are said to be following suit.

[Xtrema]

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Aftermarket tuning may become a thing of the past. The new GM L5P Duramax is the first diesel out that cannot be tuned period. I hear the ecm is completely uncrackable and nobody wants to go through the huge expanse of engineering a new one. Ford and Ram are said to be following suit.

Nothing is unhackable. They can always do a piggyback that temper with the sensors.

The question is always about how much of market is there to reward that effort.

[HiTempguy1]

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Nothing is unhackable. They can always do a piggyback that temper with the sensors.

The question is always about how much of market is there to reward that effort.

Or completely do away with the factory ECU. Harder with CANBUS, but not impossible.

[corsvette]

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Nothing is unhackable. They can always do a piggyback that temper with the sensors.

The question is always about how much of market is there to reward that effort.

Diesel guys are huge spenders on tunes and deletes, the L5P has been out over a year and every tuning compay says the same thing, not tunable. I think big fine possibilities from both GM and the EPA are holding it back.

[dirtsniffer]

the EGR delete guys are going to be sad.

[94boosted]

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Please don't spread misinformation. The ecu records all boost values, and any tune is traceable. They only way to absolutely get around this is buying another stock ecu. If/when something goes wrong, you can kiss your engine/tranny warranty goodbye. When the dealership runs full diagnostics on your ecu, they're able to see if the boost parameters were tampered with. Please don't believe what other people have posted on other forums.

Yes the ECU does record boost values absolutely but do you understand that with the JB it's intercepting the signal that the ECU is seeing consequently forcing it to produce more boost to achieve the boost target (which is stock). You can easily see the boost values the ECU is seeing by datalogging or getting a P3 style OBDII based boost gauge, compare that to an analog boost gauge and you'll see a difference of 4-5PSI. I did a ton of research on juice boxes when I first bought my R. Below is a part of my actual conversation with George @ BMS, I can forward you the email if you like:

Question
"The consensus on the forums seems to be that if you remove the JB module prior to dealer visits, VW cannot flag a TD1. However there’s some discussions that VW is reprogramming the ECU’s and setting in new trigger points for ecu logs. So if there was a warranty claim they could review this information. Any truth to this? I believe the module works by “lying” to the ECU regarding the boost it’s seeing so even VW reviewing an ecu log wouldn’t show them any boost pressure (target and/or actual) readings outside of normal parameters. What about WGDC, fuel pressure, lambda etc. could they see that one or more of those was outside of normal parameters?"

Response
"Due to the way the JB1 works the main parameters which the ECU logs with a trigger point methodology are boost/torque, rpm and speed. The ECU does not have enough memory to keep storing running parameters on a continuous basis. If faults are stored they are stored as freeze frame events (conditions at the time of the fault) and the ones that are stored to not raise any suspicion. The dealers mainly rely on flash security and if there is need ECU parameters that are logged as mentioned above are sent to Germany. To date even on very large claims there has been no detection or warranty denial."

On the forums there have been guys that have a JB1/JB4 that have had major warranty work done with no issues (no other mods + they removed the actual JB before the visit). I'm not spreading misinformation just passing along the information I received straight from the horses mouth and the countless threads I personally scoured. This is specific to the MK7 MQB platform. The JB (and Neuspeed) piggybacks are very much different from the actual tunes you can get from APR, Cobb etc.

[rage2]

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Yes the ECU does record boost values absolutely but do you understand that with the JB it's intercepting the signal that the ECU is seeing consequently forcing it to produce more boost to achieve the boost target (which is stock). You can easily see the boost values the ECU is seeing by datalogging or getting a P3 style OBDII based boost gauge, compare that to an analog boost gauge and you'll see a difference of 4-5PSI. I did a ton of research on juice boxes when I first bought my R. Below is a part of my actual conversation with George @ BMS, I can forward you the email if you like:

Question
"The consensus on the forums seems to be that if you remove the JB module prior to dealer visits, VW cannot flag a TD1. However there’s some discussions that VW is reprogramming the ECU’s and setting in new trigger points for ecu logs. So if there was a warranty claim they could review this information. Any truth to this? I believe the module works by “lying” to the ECU regarding the boost it’s seeing so even VW reviewing an ecu log wouldn’t show them any boost pressure (target and/or actual) readings outside of normal parameters. What about WGDC, fuel pressure, lambda etc. could they see that one or more of those was outside of normal parameters?"

Response
"Due to the way the JB1 works the main parameters which the ECU logs with a trigger point methodology are boost/torque, rpm and speed. The ECU does not have enough memory to keep storing running parameters on a continuous basis. If faults are stored they are stored as freeze frame events (conditions at the time of the fault) and the ones that are stored to not raise any suspicion. The dealers mainly rely on flash security and if there is need ECU parameters that are logged as mentioned above are sent to Germany. To date even on very large claims there has been no detection or warranty denial."

On the forums there have been guys that have a JB1/JB4 that have had major warranty work done with no issues (no other mods + they removed the actual JB before the visit). I'm not spreading misinformation just passing along the information I received straight from the horses mouth and the countless threads I personally scoured. This is specific to the MK7 MQB platform. The JB (and Neuspeed) piggybacks are very much different from the actual tunes you can get from APR, Cobb etc.

That's only part of the story. You're forgetting that there are also additional sensors not used for fuel/timing that's not being intercepted by JB right? Multiple MAP sensors to record boost at different stages of the intake is a potential for a red flag if it's recording duration of out of spec values. Lots of other things become out of spec as well, timing, injection pulse being the easy 2 targets. BMW JB4 guys are getting busted left and right using JB4 until they developed a tool to clear the out of spec data.

[94boosted]

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That's only part of the story. You're forgetting that there are also additional sensors not used for fuel/timing that's not being intercepted by JB right? Multiple MAP sensors to record boost at different stages of the intake is a potential for a red flag if it's recording duration of out of spec values. Lots of other things become out of spec as well, timing, injection pulse being the easy 2 targets. BMW JB4 guys are getting busted left and right using JB4 until they developed a tool to clear the out of spec data.

I believe it does intercept the pressure sensors both on the charge pipe and on the intake manifold. As for timing & fuel from my understanding of Georges comments that isn't one of the parameters that gets permanently logged on the ECU during an event, just boost, torque, speed and RPM. At the time I was doing a lot of reading (early 2017) nobody had any warranty issues with a JB on an MQB (that didn't have DP, IC, intake etc) and I haven't heard of any since but I don't really frequent the VW Vortex Forums.

[Tej.S]

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Yes the ECU does record boost values absolutely but do you understand that with the JB it's intercepting the signal that the ECU is seeing consequently forcing it to produce more boost to achieve the boost target (which is stock). You can easily see the boost values the ECU is seeing by datalogging or getting a P3 style OBDII based boost gauge, compare that to an analog boost gauge and you'll see a difference of 4-5PSI. I did a ton of research on juice boxes when I first bought my R. Below is a part of my actual conversation with George @ BMS, I can forward you the email if you like:

Question
"The consensus on the forums seems to be that if you remove the JB module prior to dealer visits, VW cannot flag a TD1. However there’s some discussions that VW is reprogramming the ECU’s and setting in new trigger points for ecu logs. So if there was a warranty claim they could review this information. Any truth to this? I believe the module works by “lying” to the ECU regarding the boost it’s seeing so even VW reviewing an ecu log wouldn’t show them any boost pressure (target and/or actual) readings outside of normal parameters. What about WGDC, fuel pressure, lambda etc. could they see that one or more of those was outside of normal parameters?"

Response
"Due to the way the JB1 works the main parameters which the ECU logs with a trigger point methodology are boost/torque, rpm and speed. The ECU does not have enough memory to keep storing running parameters on a continuous basis. If faults are stored they are stored as freeze frame events (conditions at the time of the fault) and the ones that are stored to not raise any suspicion. The dealers mainly rely on flash security and if there is need ECU parameters that are logged as mentioned above are sent to Germany. To date even on very large claims there has been no detection or warranty denial."

On the forums there have been guys that have a JB1/JB4 that have had major warranty work done with no issues (no other mods + they removed the actual JB before the visit). I'm not spreading misinformation just passing along the information I received straight from the horses mouth and the countless threads I personally scoured. This is specific to the MK7 MQB platform. The JB (and Neuspeed) piggybacks are very much different from the actual tunes you can get from APR, Cobb etc.

Let me know when you find a tuner who is willing to cover your ass once you get dumped by your dealer.

[94boosted]

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Let me know when you find a tuner who is willing to cover your ass once you get dumped by your dealer.

I feel like you're still failing to understand the difference between a tune that's written to the ECU and a piggyback, maybe you should do some more reading. Is a piggyback a guaranteed way of avoiding warranty issues, absolutely not. Is it different than a tune, absolutely.